00:00:00.377 --> 00:00:04.458
(cicada chirping)

00:00:30.063 --> 00:00:31.944
- [Voiceover] When you walk through

00:00:31.944 --> 00:00:34.347
the Alligator River
National Wildlife Refuge,

00:00:34.347 --> 00:00:39.142
the first thing you might
come to is a tall grass.

00:00:39.142 --> 00:00:42.184
Then you'll come to an area where you step

00:00:42.184 --> 00:00:45.180
and there's this deep peat
soil that you sink into

00:00:45.180 --> 00:00:47.466
and all of these Cypress
stumps everywhere.

00:00:47.466 --> 00:00:49.417
Walk a little farther
and you'll get to Pocosin

00:00:49.417 --> 00:00:52.447
which is this massive
shrubs that's so so thick

00:00:52.447 --> 00:00:54.502
that if you walk too far into it,

00:00:54.502 --> 00:00:57.991
you can't find your way out.

00:00:59.204 --> 00:01:00.040
This is the landscape that

00:01:00.040 --> 00:01:01.962
the Red Wolves are moving through.

00:01:02.931 --> 00:01:04.533
- [Voiceover] The county
that I lived in for 30 years

00:01:04.533 --> 00:01:07.726
has one of the rarest animals
on Earth living in it.

00:01:07.726 --> 00:01:09.711
I mean to me that's really special.

00:01:15.241 --> 00:01:17.673
You might paddle this whole course

00:01:17.673 --> 00:01:20.599
and really not see much of anything

00:01:20.599 --> 00:01:23.317
other than the beautiful
area that this is,

00:01:23.317 --> 00:01:26.307
and experience the peacefulness
of being back here.

00:01:27.519 --> 00:01:30.318
You put the different
types of frogs together,

00:01:30.318 --> 00:01:33.012
the different types of owl,

00:01:33.012 --> 00:01:35.496
and then the wolves
chiming in on top of that.

00:01:35.496 --> 00:01:38.649
(wolves howling)

00:01:42.271 --> 00:01:45.453
It's just a haunting sound.

00:01:52.223 --> 00:01:54.070
- [Voiceover] You can say the word wolf

00:01:54.070 --> 00:01:55.405
and people have this image.

00:01:55.405 --> 00:01:56.705
The image that immediately comes to mind

00:01:56.705 --> 00:01:58.191
is of a grey Timber Wolf you know.

00:01:58.191 --> 00:02:02.208
Big, you know, fierce,
weighing 90 or 100 pounds.

00:02:02.208 --> 00:02:04.280
Red Wolves aren't like that.

00:02:05.992 --> 00:02:07.846
- [Voiceover] There's
one thing that in my mind

00:02:07.846 --> 00:02:08.988
makes them completely unique

00:02:08.988 --> 00:02:11.269
is that they are the All-American wolf.

00:02:12.481 --> 00:02:14.815
They're the only wolf that has its range

00:02:14.815 --> 00:02:17.132
completely within in the United States.

00:02:20.062 --> 00:02:21.223
- [Voiceover] As this country was settled,

00:02:21.223 --> 00:02:24.109
we waged war on the wolf.

00:02:24.997 --> 00:02:28.363
They were killed, actively persecuted.

00:02:28.363 --> 00:02:30.872
As was most species of wildlife.

00:02:32.722 --> 00:02:35.093
- Back in the sixties when
Fish and Wildlife Services

00:02:35.093 --> 00:02:36.556
were looking at the Red Wolf population,

00:02:36.556 --> 00:02:38.901
they were restricted to
just a very small range.

00:02:40.971 --> 00:02:43.541
They were in the corners
of Texas and Louisiana.

00:02:43.541 --> 00:02:44.810
And so they determined that
if they didn't step in,

00:02:44.810 --> 00:02:46.691
and take those wolves out of the wild,

00:02:46.691 --> 00:02:48.618
that eventually they
would just go extinct.

00:02:48.618 --> 00:02:52.194
- They were simply being
bred out of existence.

00:02:52.194 --> 00:02:54.412
The Red Wolf genome was being being bled

00:02:54.412 --> 00:02:57.163
into the Coyote genome, and eventually

00:02:57.163 --> 00:02:59.763
it would've been lost forever.

00:02:59.763 --> 00:03:02.759
And that was the rationale for removing

00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.660
animals from the wild.

00:03:06.660 --> 00:03:09.179
Over 400 canids were caught.

00:03:09.179 --> 00:03:12.163
Principally in that
Louisiana Texas country.

00:03:12.163 --> 00:03:13.556
And they said, "we're gonna take a look

00:03:13.556 --> 00:03:15.356
"at these 400 canids and we're gonna say

00:03:15.356 --> 00:03:17.318
"which ones do we think actually fit

00:03:18.488 --> 00:03:20.070
"our notion of a Red Wolf."

00:03:20.070 --> 00:03:22.832
14 were actually kept.

00:03:22.832 --> 00:03:25.572
Red Wolves were really quite uncommon,

00:03:25.572 --> 00:03:28.660
because of the increasing
communities of Coyotes,

00:03:28.660 --> 00:03:31.790
And the Red Wolves inability
to find a proper mate.

00:03:34.904 --> 00:03:36.196
- [Voiceover] They were
looking for a partner,

00:03:36.196 --> 00:03:38.657
that could establish a breeding program

00:03:38.657 --> 00:03:40.921
to build up the population numbers

00:03:40.921 --> 00:03:43.243
for the eventual re-release into the wild.

00:03:43.243 --> 00:03:45.112
And so Point Defiance Zoo & Aquarium

00:03:45.112 --> 00:03:47.713
stepped up to the plate and
we took those wolves in.

00:03:47.713 --> 00:03:51.080
We started a very successful
zoo based breeding program.

00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:54.180
- [Voiceover] It was 1987 when
the Fish & Wildlife Service

00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:56.223
first went out into the wild and said

00:03:56.223 --> 00:03:58.736
OK this place in eastern North Carolina,

00:03:58.736 --> 00:04:00.875
the Albemarle Peninsula is a good place

00:04:00.875 --> 00:04:03.011
to reintroduce this species.

00:04:09.321 --> 00:04:11.103
- [Voiceover] We used
to take our grandkids,

00:04:11.103 --> 00:04:13.274
my wife and I we would
just ride on the farm

00:04:13.274 --> 00:04:15.236
during the summer months because we knew

00:04:15.236 --> 00:04:18.463
there was a good chance
we'd find some of the pups.

00:04:18.463 --> 00:04:21.047
So yea, it was intriguing.

00:04:26.254 --> 00:04:30.236
What we found was, that our
deer herd did get better,

00:04:30.236 --> 00:04:33.673
the Nutria population
went down to almost zero,

00:04:33.673 --> 00:04:36.082
and we attributed that to the wolves.

00:04:40.836 --> 00:04:42.882
- [Voiceover] It was the first attempt

00:04:42.882 --> 00:04:46.501
in the history of mankind,

00:04:46.501 --> 00:04:49.033
to restore a carnivore that had been

00:04:49.033 --> 00:04:51.819
determined to become extinct in the wild.

00:04:51.819 --> 00:04:53.839
So it was a big deal,
it was the first time

00:04:53.839 --> 00:04:56.068
humanity had ever tried this.

00:04:56.068 --> 00:04:58.014
(gentle acoustic guitar music)

00:05:08.503 --> 00:05:10.267
- [Voiceover] People are
familiar with the Grey Wolves

00:05:10.267 --> 00:05:12.183
and the Yellowstone release,

00:05:12.183 --> 00:05:14.168
but that was actually
based on the research

00:05:14.168 --> 00:05:16.781
done by the Red Wolf biologists.

00:05:16.781 --> 00:05:20.331
This program came first it's
just not as well recognized.

00:05:20.331 --> 00:05:21.518
- [Voiceover] You can
drive to the outerbanks

00:05:21.518 --> 00:05:23.666
without even knowing, you
might see a wolf crossing sign,

00:05:23.666 --> 00:05:26.632
but you might ignore it.

00:05:28.228 --> 00:05:29.679
- [Voiceover] Alligator
River became a refuge

00:05:29.679 --> 00:05:33.418
because in part it offered an
opportunity for the Red Wolf.

00:05:33.418 --> 00:05:35.426
But the other real reason that shoved us

00:05:35.426 --> 00:05:37.527
in the direction of north
eastern North Carolina,

00:05:37.527 --> 00:05:40.198
there were no Coyotes.

00:05:40.198 --> 00:05:43.444
When we began the work,
there were no Coyotes.

00:05:43.444 --> 00:05:46.340
- [Voiceover] Ecosystems
need a top predator.

00:05:46.340 --> 00:05:48.452
The reasons Coyotes are here is because

00:05:48.452 --> 00:05:51.506
there has been no top
predator in the east,

00:05:51.506 --> 00:05:53.462
because all the wolves were killed off.

00:05:55.314 --> 00:05:57.404
- [Voiceover] The only lingering question

00:05:58.604 --> 00:06:01.619
can Red Wolves maintain themselves?

00:06:01.619 --> 00:06:05.706
As a unique genetic entity,
worthy of protection

00:06:05.706 --> 00:06:08.585
under the Federal Endangered Species Act,

00:06:08.585 --> 00:06:11.906
in the presence of a Coyote population.

00:06:11.906 --> 00:06:14.170
The issue of hybridization.

00:06:14.170 --> 00:06:16.329
There were so few Red Wolves.

00:06:16.329 --> 00:06:19.290
So just imagine you're a
two year old male Red Wolf,

00:06:19.290 --> 00:06:22.030
you're looking for a mate
you only breed once a year,

00:06:22.030 --> 00:06:24.050
I promise you you're not
going to pass it up right.

00:06:24.050 --> 00:06:26.186
You breed once a year man, that's it.

00:06:26.186 --> 00:06:28.391
You get one shot at it, and you can't find

00:06:28.391 --> 00:06:31.747
something that's what
you're really looking for.

00:06:31.747 --> 00:06:33.048
Why in the world would you turn

00:06:33.048 --> 00:06:36.472
your back on that female
coyote down the way?

00:06:36.472 --> 00:06:38.220
You don't.

00:06:39.085 --> 00:06:41.384
We operated under the
premise that if we could

00:06:41.384 --> 00:06:44.124
establish a core population of Red Wolves,

00:06:44.124 --> 00:06:46.004
We assumed that it would maintain itself.

00:06:46.004 --> 00:06:50.172
And if there was any hybridization
with Coyotes going on

00:06:50.172 --> 00:06:53.168
it would be at the
periphery where the impact

00:06:53.168 --> 00:06:55.798
was relatively insignificant.

00:06:57.045 --> 00:07:00.029
When I looked at the data most recently,

00:07:00.029 --> 00:07:01.851
I saw pretty good circumstances

00:07:01.851 --> 00:07:05.399
by 2003, 2004,
circumstances that would say

00:07:05.399 --> 00:07:06.542
holy mackerel this looks a lot like

00:07:06.542 --> 00:07:09.433
a core population of Red
Wolves should look like.

00:07:09.433 --> 00:07:11.163
And as I understand it, about then

00:07:11.163 --> 00:07:14.565
they started losing a significant number

00:07:14.565 --> 00:07:17.851
of Red Wolves to mortality.

00:07:17.851 --> 00:07:20.405
Animals were being killed.

00:07:20.405 --> 00:07:23.819
Red Wolves and Coyotes are
hard sometimes to tell apart.

00:07:23.819 --> 00:07:26.871
The social integrity
of this core population

00:07:26.871 --> 00:07:29.971
that might have existed was interrupted.

00:07:29.971 --> 00:07:32.717
(crickets chirping)

00:07:38.957 --> 00:07:40.409
- [Voiceover] Up to 10% of the population

00:07:40.409 --> 00:07:43.311
was being lost every year to gunshot.

00:07:43.311 --> 00:07:45.970
And at the same time, the
State Wildlife Commission

00:07:45.970 --> 00:07:48.838
is authorizing an expansion

00:07:48.838 --> 00:07:53.621
of this very risky activity
for this endangered species.

00:07:53.621 --> 00:07:55.339
- [Voiceover] One of the original goals

00:07:55.339 --> 00:07:57.742
of the Wildlife Commission in allowing

00:07:57.742 --> 00:07:59.844
Coyote hunting in those counties

00:07:59.844 --> 00:08:04.406
was to, and remains
giving private land owners

00:08:04.406 --> 00:08:07.146
options that they can use for

00:08:07.146 --> 00:08:09.382
managing wildlife on their property.

00:08:10.711 --> 00:08:12.568
- [Voiceover] The Fish &
Wildlife Service should've said

00:08:12.568 --> 00:08:15.273
to the state of North
Carolina, you can't do that.

00:08:15.273 --> 00:08:18.013
You can't have these liberal regulations

00:08:18.013 --> 00:08:20.428
to harvest Coyotes at night, in these five

00:08:20.428 --> 00:08:22.309
north eastern North Carolina counties,

00:08:22.309 --> 00:08:23.714
because you're killing Red Wolves.

00:08:23.714 --> 00:08:26.477
That's a violation of federal law.

00:08:26.477 --> 00:08:31.435
- In October of 2013,
our groups filed suit

00:08:31.435 --> 00:08:35.068
challenging the authorization
of Coyote hunting

00:08:35.068 --> 00:08:37.112
in the Red Wolf recovery area,

00:08:37.112 --> 00:08:39.881
as a violation of the
Endangered Species Act.

00:08:41.373 --> 00:08:44.765
(cicada chirping)

00:08:51.369 --> 00:08:52.692
- [Voiceover] They came
back with a Coyote hunting

00:08:52.692 --> 00:08:55.154
permit in the five coastal counties

00:08:55.154 --> 00:08:57.116
but it's very restrictive
and the biggest part

00:08:57.116 --> 00:08:59.136
is you can only do it in the daytime.

00:08:59.136 --> 00:09:02.300
You don't see them much in the daytime.

00:09:04.593 --> 00:09:05.858
- [Voiceover] The majority of people

00:09:05.858 --> 00:09:06.996
that I know in this area would

00:09:06.996 --> 00:09:08.389
rather the wolves be taken out.

00:09:08.389 --> 00:09:10.328
But a lot of it is not
directed at the wolves

00:09:10.328 --> 00:09:12.929
themselves but it's
directed at the Coyote,

00:09:12.929 --> 00:09:15.738
and the potential harm that Coyotes do.

00:09:15.738 --> 00:09:17.956
When the conservation groups got behind

00:09:17.956 --> 00:09:20.997
shutting down the taking of Coyotes,

00:09:20.997 --> 00:09:23.749
they almost drove the nail single-handedly

00:09:23.749 --> 00:09:25.456
in public perception of whether

00:09:25.456 --> 00:09:28.614
to let the Red Wolves stay here or not.

00:09:28.614 --> 00:09:31.795
Without private land
owners, it will not succeed.

00:09:31.795 --> 00:09:34.488
And when you infringe on
property land owners rights,

00:09:34.488 --> 00:09:39.457
and they put their guard up,
it's hard to reverse that.

00:09:39.457 --> 00:09:42.151
- People thought, here
these conservation groups

00:09:42.151 --> 00:09:43.497
are they're taking away our rights.

00:09:43.497 --> 00:09:45.355
Certainly with the judges injunction,

00:09:45.355 --> 00:09:47.596
his original injunction
was no Coyote hunting,

00:09:47.596 --> 00:09:50.591
but the second part of that
which never got any press

00:09:50.591 --> 00:09:54.434
was if you're a land
owner and you feel harmed,

00:09:54.434 --> 00:09:56.129
your property, your person
, your dog, your cat

00:09:56.129 --> 00:09:57.859
your kids, your
grandmother, doesn't matter.

00:09:57.859 --> 00:10:00.489
You could shoot that Coyote.

00:10:02.376 --> 00:10:05.591
- Beginning in the 1990's,
the US Fish & Wildlife Service

00:10:05.591 --> 00:10:07.972
has implemented a very strong

00:10:07.972 --> 00:10:10.154
adaptive management
program on the landscape.

00:10:10.154 --> 00:10:12.336
So one of the things
that this is involved,

00:10:12.336 --> 00:10:15.309
is capturing and sterilizing Coyotes.

00:10:15.309 --> 00:10:17.619
So this is important
for Red Wolf protection,

00:10:17.619 --> 00:10:20.208
so Coyotes and Red
Wolves don't interbreed.

00:10:20.208 --> 00:10:24.051
This is also really
important for Coyote control.

00:10:24.051 --> 00:10:24.992
- [Voiceover] There's very little evidence

00:10:24.992 --> 00:10:26.338
that people shooting Coyotes impacts

00:10:26.338 --> 00:10:28.056
the Coyote population very much.

00:10:28.056 --> 00:10:30.611
It's been falsely advertised
as this effective tool

00:10:30.611 --> 00:10:33.676
for managing Coyote populations

00:10:33.676 --> 00:10:35.498
when the reality is the Coyote is going to

00:10:35.498 --> 00:10:39.487
keep breeding faster the
more they shoot them.

00:10:45.018 --> 00:10:45.750
- [Voiceover] The mission of the

00:10:45.750 --> 00:10:48.154
Wildlife Resources Commission is to

00:10:48.154 --> 00:10:51.393
conserve healthy populations of fish

00:10:51.393 --> 00:10:54.353
and wildlife resources across the state

00:10:54.353 --> 00:10:57.535
for the benefit of our citizens,

00:10:57.535 --> 00:11:02.301
and the long term sustainability
of those resources.

00:11:14.392 --> 00:11:15.738
- [Voiceover] So as we know right now,

00:11:15.738 --> 00:11:16.993
the US Fish & Wildlife Service

00:11:16.993 --> 00:11:20.057
is considering the resolution from the

00:11:20.057 --> 00:11:22.159
North Carolina Wildlife
Resource Commission

00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:25.515
basically asking them to
stop the Red Wolf program,

00:11:25.515 --> 00:11:27.651
pull them out of the wild,
declare them extinct,

00:11:27.651 --> 00:11:29.694
so they'd only be zoo based wolves

00:11:29.694 --> 00:11:31.273
and wildlife center based wolves.

00:11:31.273 --> 00:11:35.615
- Why over the last decade
has the North Carolina

00:11:35.615 --> 00:11:39.098
Wildlife Resources
Commission chosen to press

00:11:39.098 --> 00:11:42.279
this the way they have, I don't know.

00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:44.334
I don't know.

00:11:44.334 --> 00:11:46.698
- [Voiceover] I think the resolution

00:11:46.698 --> 00:11:48.108
is well written for those who want

00:11:48.108 --> 00:11:50.348
to protect their private property rights.

00:11:50.348 --> 00:11:52.241
And to be able to take out a predator

00:11:52.241 --> 00:11:54.592
such as the Coyotes without restriction.

00:11:55.840 --> 00:11:57.605
- [Voiceover] The
resolutions were based on

00:11:57.605 --> 00:12:00.182
the best available
science, the perspectives

00:12:00.182 --> 00:12:04.628
of our agency, and the
input of our commissioners.

00:12:04.628 --> 00:12:06.242
- [Voiceover] They do a great
job on almost everything

00:12:06.242 --> 00:12:09.307
but top predators, like the Red Wolf.

00:12:09.307 --> 00:12:11.350
People don't like Coyotes,
let's shoot the Coyotes.

00:12:11.350 --> 00:12:13.010
The Red Wolf is getting in the way

00:12:13.010 --> 00:12:15.675
of shooting Coyotes so let's
get rid of the Red Wolf.

00:12:19.605 --> 00:12:20.650
- [Voiceover] I think
the question of whether

00:12:20.650 --> 00:12:23.123
the Red Wolf is a sustainable species,

00:12:23.123 --> 00:12:25.224
whether this is something
that can really be saved,

00:12:25.224 --> 00:12:27.790
is a valid question.

00:12:27.790 --> 00:12:29.194
The problem I have with the approach

00:12:29.194 --> 00:12:31.830
that's being taken by the
Wildlife Resources Commission

00:12:31.830 --> 00:12:34.256
is that I don't think we have been given

00:12:34.256 --> 00:12:36.334
a chance to answer that question.

00:12:36.334 --> 00:12:37.310
There hasn't been enough time

00:12:37.310 --> 00:12:39.074
because of the influx of Coyotes.

00:12:39.074 --> 00:12:42.239
And they're just assuming
that the answer is no.

00:12:44.585 --> 00:12:46.224
- [Voiceover] They would need many years

00:12:46.224 --> 00:12:50.009
of monitoring after they've
basically walked away.

00:12:50.009 --> 00:12:52.365
So they have a reliable data set

00:12:52.365 --> 00:12:54.049
that would give them a chance to say

00:12:54.049 --> 00:12:56.510
here's what we know, the Red Wolf

00:12:56.510 --> 00:12:59.425
is or the Red Wolf isn't recoverable.

00:12:59.425 --> 00:13:02.989
I hope the answer is it's recoverable,

00:13:02.989 --> 00:13:06.112
but as I sit here today I don't
profess to have the answer.

00:13:06.112 --> 00:13:07.448
I don't know.

00:13:07.448 --> 00:13:10.385
I just can say fairly confidently,

00:13:10.385 --> 00:13:13.031
nobody else knows either.

00:13:13.031 --> 00:13:15.580
(cicada chirping)

00:13:20.625 --> 00:13:21.681
They don't have to have an answer

00:13:21.681 --> 00:13:23.446
to the question what next?

00:13:23.446 --> 00:13:25.466
If they could simply say we're not sure,

00:13:25.466 --> 00:13:27.846
here's what we understand today

00:13:27.846 --> 00:13:29.263
from when we began this program

00:13:29.263 --> 00:13:31.491
so very many years ago.

00:13:31.491 --> 00:13:35.126
But I don't think silence
serves the species well,

00:13:35.126 --> 00:13:37.587
it doesn't serve the
residents of north eastern

00:13:37.587 --> 00:13:40.164
North Carolina well and
it certainly doesn't serve

00:13:40.164 --> 00:13:42.620
the United States Fish
& Wildlife Service well.

00:13:43.891 --> 00:13:45.837
(soft acoustic guitar music)

00:13:45.837 --> 00:13:47.160
- [Voiceover] Look at all the firsts.

00:13:47.160 --> 00:13:48.797
This is the first canid
to be re-introduced,

00:13:48.797 --> 00:13:51.503
the adaptive management
strategy, pup fostering.

00:13:52.853 --> 00:13:54.811
- [Voiceover] They should
stand up and tell this story.

00:13:54.811 --> 00:13:56.628
It is instructive.

00:13:59.258 --> 00:14:00.384
- [Voiceover] Sometimes when you don't

00:14:00.384 --> 00:14:02.671
hear from something, or some group

00:14:02.671 --> 00:14:04.250
I think instinct is just to go,

00:14:04.250 --> 00:14:06.212
hmm there must be something wrong.

00:14:06.212 --> 00:14:09.957
And that's what I'm afraid
hurt the Red Wolf program.

00:14:11.007 --> 00:14:12.455
- [Voiceover] Many
people that we hear from

00:14:12.455 --> 00:14:15.613
that like the idea of Red Wolves,

00:14:15.613 --> 00:14:18.847
don't live in those five counties.

00:14:21.859 --> 00:14:23.520
- [Voiceover] The fear
factor is larger here,

00:14:23.520 --> 00:14:25.458
not just necessarily from the wolves,

00:14:25.458 --> 00:14:28.315
but from how am I gonna live my life?

00:14:28.315 --> 00:14:30.322
How am I gonna send my
children to college?

00:14:30.322 --> 00:14:32.935
How am I going to make ends meet?

00:14:32.935 --> 00:14:35.663
What am I gonna do for
money in retirement?

00:14:36.843 --> 00:14:38.092
If you have a bad year farming,

00:14:38.092 --> 00:14:40.553
or when the economy is down,

00:14:40.553 --> 00:14:43.299
it hits areas like this harder
than it would in a city.

00:14:45.313 --> 00:14:46.753
- [Voiceover] There's no big industry

00:14:46.753 --> 00:14:48.912
to carry on livelihoods in this area.

00:14:48.912 --> 00:14:51.350
A lot of it is dependent on
the resources that are here,

00:14:51.350 --> 00:14:53.643
and the peoples ability to use those.

00:14:55.274 --> 00:14:58.513
The hotels here, their busy
season is hunting season.

00:14:58.513 --> 00:15:02.194
The restaurants, their busy
season is hunting season.

00:15:02.194 --> 00:15:03.889
If it's a small property, and I only have

00:15:03.889 --> 00:15:05.886
a few deer that I got, I'm probably not

00:15:05.886 --> 00:15:08.429
gonna want those wolves on my property.

00:15:08.429 --> 00:15:09.892
- [Voiceover] I think there's the notion

00:15:09.892 --> 00:15:13.386
that the wolf might be a
competitor for those deer.

00:15:13.386 --> 00:15:16.591
But I don't think the evidence
supports that really well.

00:15:16.591 --> 00:15:18.448
I think the number of deer
in Albemarle Peninsula

00:15:18.448 --> 00:15:21.403
has gone up since 1987.

00:15:24.067 --> 00:15:26.587
North Carolina in 2013 had over 60,000

00:15:26.587 --> 00:15:30.871
deer vehicle collisions and
3400 people got injured.

00:15:30.871 --> 00:15:33.367
18 people died and so we have this deer

00:15:33.367 --> 00:15:36.188
that's causing this
massive 150 million dollars

00:15:36.188 --> 00:15:39.172
in damages and yet we
completely ignore that

00:15:39.172 --> 00:15:42.324
and focus on this wolf
that's never hurt anybody.

00:15:44.931 --> 00:15:46.509
- [Voiceover] One day, I pulled into my

00:15:46.509 --> 00:15:49.075
driveway here in this yard and that part

00:15:49.075 --> 00:15:52.314
of the yard was covered in
Rhode Island Red feathers,

00:15:52.314 --> 00:15:54.113
and I thought "something has attacked

00:15:54.113 --> 00:15:56.146
"the chickens while
they're out in the yard."

00:15:56.146 --> 00:15:58.073
Well, I wasn't sure what it was,

00:15:58.073 --> 00:16:01.928
but I was suspicious
of a Coyote or a wolf.

00:16:01.928 --> 00:16:04.830
Some folks from the refuge came over,

00:16:04.830 --> 00:16:07.953
and put up a camera on the trail,

00:16:07.953 --> 00:16:11.227
they got a wolf with a
collar going in front,

00:16:11.227 --> 00:16:14.094
in front of the camera with one
of my chickens in its mouth.

00:16:14.094 --> 00:16:16.753
Here's what I learned, they knew the wolf.

00:16:16.753 --> 00:16:19.993
He had a front left leg that
he was seriously limping,

00:16:19.993 --> 00:16:22.291
he'd evidently probably been hit by a car.

00:16:22.291 --> 00:16:24.555
It was a bad experience in
that I lost my chickens,

00:16:24.555 --> 00:16:26.993
but you think about that,
it's a wounded animal,

00:16:26.993 --> 00:16:28.271
so what is a wolf gonna do?

00:16:28.271 --> 00:16:30.054
He's gonna eat just like you or I would.

00:16:30.054 --> 00:16:32.613
And he's gonna find the easy meal.

00:16:32.613 --> 00:16:36.189
One wolf that came in my
yard and ate a few chickens

00:16:36.189 --> 00:16:39.694
once in eight years, and
I put that on Facebook.

00:16:39.694 --> 00:16:42.690
You would've thought we
were, it was like "Jaws"

00:16:42.690 --> 00:16:43.734
like the movie "Jaws".

00:16:43.734 --> 00:16:45.868
And it goes from a crippled
wolf eating a chicken,

00:16:45.868 --> 00:16:48.216
to a predator that's gonna get your cat.

00:16:48.216 --> 00:16:52.756
It's not really a very
truthful documentation

00:16:52.756 --> 00:16:54.103
of what's really happening.

00:16:54.103 --> 00:16:55.344
The bears come up and will take

00:16:55.344 --> 00:16:58.444
the garbage off your porch,
so what is that argument?

00:16:58.444 --> 00:17:02.705
The wolves are scared to death of people.

00:17:02.705 --> 00:17:04.987
They don't wanna be around people.

00:17:10.879 --> 00:17:12.261
- [Voiceover] I think she's probably one

00:17:12.261 --> 00:17:14.084
of less than a dozen breeding female

00:17:14.084 --> 00:17:16.336
Red Wolves left in the wild.

00:17:16.336 --> 00:17:18.936
And from that perspective,
it's just horrific.

00:17:18.936 --> 00:17:21.200
You can't expect a wolf to be doing well

00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:25.705
and thriving if you're
letting land owners kill them

00:17:25.705 --> 00:17:29.444
and particularly if you're not standing up

00:17:29.444 --> 00:17:32.387
for the values of the wolf
and educating people about it.

00:17:34.796 --> 00:17:36.304
- [Voiceover] Since
colonization of this country,

00:17:36.304 --> 00:17:38.441
we've hand picked, we've
said we don't want this

00:17:38.441 --> 00:17:40.136
we don't want that,
what we're trying to do

00:17:40.136 --> 00:17:41.506
with the animals like the Red Wolf

00:17:41.506 --> 00:17:44.223
is to put them back in,
we're trying to fix it,

00:17:44.223 --> 00:17:45.941
what we've broke.

00:17:45.941 --> 00:17:49.076
To take it out again,
we're breaking it again.

00:17:49.076 --> 00:17:51.421
So why would we do that?

00:17:51.421 --> 00:17:53.662
Why would we break it again?

00:17:53.662 --> 00:17:56.263
- [Voiceover] If you're
gonna put your money

00:17:56.263 --> 00:17:58.921
into preserving the White-tailed Deer

00:17:58.921 --> 00:18:00.779
then you should also be conscientious

00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:02.323
that the Red Wolf that crosses the field

00:18:02.323 --> 00:18:06.619
is also worthy of keeping,
when they're gone they're gone.

00:18:06.619 --> 00:18:08.993
There's no more Red Wolf.

00:18:10.102 --> 00:18:12.005
When you have as much wide
open space as we have,

00:18:12.005 --> 00:18:14.479
it's not like condominiums
are coming this way

00:18:14.479 --> 00:18:15.941
and pushing those wolves out.

00:18:15.941 --> 00:18:18.844
We've got what we need to work with.

00:18:18.844 --> 00:18:19.900
- [Voiceover] We wiped them out,

00:18:19.900 --> 00:18:21.363
now we're trying to put them back.

00:18:21.363 --> 00:18:23.348
There's a purpose for them in environment,

00:18:23.348 --> 00:18:27.702
and now the state is
trying to renege on that.

00:18:27.702 --> 00:18:29.687
It's already been voted, its part of the

00:18:29.687 --> 00:18:31.636
Endangered Species Act, it's part of

00:18:31.636 --> 00:18:35.458
the commitment that we
as a people have made.

00:18:35.458 --> 00:18:38.406
I can't see why any society would not

00:18:38.406 --> 00:18:42.012
want to protect what is meant to be here.

00:18:45.268 --> 00:18:48.228
- [Voiceover] They need
to provide a forum for all

00:18:48.228 --> 00:18:52.884
the different sectors to
come together and discuss it.

00:18:53.924 --> 00:18:56.681
I'm not saying that
everybody is gonna agree,

00:18:56.681 --> 00:18:59.037
but a lot of times somebody
has very good ideas

00:18:59.037 --> 00:19:00.964
that could be implemented to get

00:19:00.964 --> 00:19:03.321
to the goals that
everybody wants to get to.

00:19:03.321 --> 00:19:04.958
- How can we get the two sides to sit down

00:19:04.958 --> 00:19:07.884
at the table and talk
about our shared values.

00:19:07.884 --> 00:19:11.820
Our common ground, and
find ways to work this out.

00:19:11.820 --> 00:19:14.095
Instead we have this polarization,

00:19:14.095 --> 00:19:16.103
and to me that's one of the saddest things

00:19:16.103 --> 00:19:18.908
that has come out of all this.

00:19:20.643 --> 00:19:21.723
- Still think there's more people

00:19:21.723 --> 00:19:24.661
that just flat out don't care.

00:19:24.661 --> 00:19:28.016
And where they are on that
issue, somewhere in the middle.

00:19:28.016 --> 00:19:30.906
We have to get them to care,
one direction or another.

00:19:30.906 --> 00:19:32.948
And hopefully it's on the side of seeing

00:19:32.948 --> 00:19:35.642
the importance of restoring an animal.

00:19:35.642 --> 00:19:37.964
Whether it's a wolf or something else.

00:19:37.964 --> 00:19:39.706
- [Voiceover] What I
really wish I could see

00:19:39.706 --> 00:19:43.502
was more working together of ethical

00:19:43.502 --> 00:19:45.743
conscientious hunters who put a lot

00:19:45.743 --> 00:19:47.566
of dollars into game management.

00:19:47.566 --> 00:19:50.549
They put a lot of dollars
into land management.

00:19:50.549 --> 00:19:52.209
I think they could be an asset,

00:19:52.209 --> 00:19:54.625
there's room for the wolves and the bears,

00:19:54.625 --> 00:19:57.620
and the hunters, there's
room for everybody

00:19:57.620 --> 00:20:00.081
if it's properly managed.

00:20:00.081 --> 00:20:01.707
- [Voiceover] Yea here
we are 30 years later,

00:20:01.707 --> 00:20:03.250
the Red Wolf has been on the ground

00:20:03.250 --> 00:20:05.468
and we still don't know
what kind of impacts it has.

00:20:05.468 --> 00:20:07.245
We have some anecdotal information,

00:20:07.245 --> 00:20:08.928
you know the refuge biologists

00:20:08.928 --> 00:20:10.368
and the Red Wolf biologists that are

00:20:10.368 --> 00:20:12.562
out there in the field all the time.

00:20:12.562 --> 00:20:14.768
Yea they see a lot of Quail,
they see a lot of Turkey,

00:20:14.768 --> 00:20:17.462
that we think are impacted by Raccoon's

00:20:17.462 --> 00:20:20.306
and Opossums and other nest predators.

00:20:20.306 --> 00:20:23.127
So there certainly could be some elements

00:20:23.127 --> 00:20:25.066
of a trophic cascade type effect there,

00:20:25.066 --> 00:20:28.061
with the wolves helping
keep those mesopredator

00:20:28.061 --> 00:20:30.517
populations down.

00:20:31.707 --> 00:20:33.681
We want to put cameras out on the ground

00:20:33.681 --> 00:20:35.364
in different locations basically within

00:20:35.364 --> 00:20:37.767
Red Wolf pack areas and
these wildlife cameras

00:20:37.767 --> 00:20:40.287
take pictures of wolves and Coyotes

00:20:40.287 --> 00:20:41.668
and bear and deer and turkey.

00:20:41.668 --> 00:20:43.584
So it's a great way of
(inaudible) wildlife.

00:20:43.584 --> 00:20:45.627
And if we do that for a few years,

00:20:45.627 --> 00:20:47.090
I think we will have the answers

00:20:47.090 --> 00:20:49.064
to some basic questions like are the

00:20:49.064 --> 00:20:51.188
wolves and Coyotes causing a collapse

00:20:51.188 --> 00:20:54.898
of huntable wildlife in
the Albermarle Peninsula.

00:20:55.763 --> 00:20:58.892
(bright music)

00:21:16.295 --> 00:21:17.577
People they watch all these nature shows

00:21:17.577 --> 00:21:20.736
about people living with Lions in Africa

00:21:20.736 --> 00:21:23.139
and Tigers in India and things like that.

00:21:23.139 --> 00:21:25.531
And we get mad at those poachers

00:21:25.531 --> 00:21:26.936
who go and shoot those animals,

00:21:26.936 --> 00:21:29.478
we think those governments
are not doing enough

00:21:29.478 --> 00:21:31.219
to protect those animals and back here

00:21:31.219 --> 00:21:34.076
at home we've got this 50 pound wolf

00:21:34.076 --> 00:21:36.235
that's never going to be a
serious threat to anybody,

00:21:36.235 --> 00:21:39.643
and yet we can't find a way to save it.

00:21:40.635 --> 00:21:45.233
- [Voiceover] My heart would
love to see the wolf succeed,

00:21:45.233 --> 00:21:48.995
history and where we are today
I don't think it's possible.

00:21:48.995 --> 00:21:50.736
- [Voiceover] To me it boils down to this,

00:21:50.736 --> 00:21:54.196
We had a wolf population
living on the east coast,

00:21:54.196 --> 00:21:55.694
it went extinct.

00:21:55.694 --> 00:21:57.331
This is all we have left.

00:21:57.331 --> 00:21:58.190
That's all.

00:21:58.190 --> 00:22:00.674
You know, there is nothing left.

00:22:00.674 --> 00:22:03.136
- [Voiceover] We don't have
so much a problem with wolves,

00:22:03.136 --> 00:22:05.457
we have a problem with
the notion of wildness.

00:22:05.457 --> 00:22:07.176
We have a notion with the problem

00:22:07.176 --> 00:22:09.173
of self willed landscapes.

00:22:09.173 --> 00:22:12.656
We have a problem feeling out of control.

00:22:12.656 --> 00:22:15.531
- [Voiceover] I would
hope that there is room

00:22:15.531 --> 00:22:17.830
for wildness in this country still.

00:22:17.830 --> 00:22:20.175
You know these wolves aren't
hurting anybody out here.

00:22:20.175 --> 00:22:22.833
They're not killing
children, they're not taking

00:22:22.833 --> 00:22:26.653
pets out of yards, they're
not bringing down livestock.

00:22:26.653 --> 00:22:30.107
Why don't we just let them have a chance?

00:22:31.041 --> 00:22:34.403
(slow folk music)