00:00:00.312 --> 00:00:03.349
[MUSIC]

00:00:27.428 --> 00:00:28.894
All of Dave's old meds.

00:00:30.661 --> 00:00:33.688
As soon as he said he was suicidal,
we took him to the hospital

00:00:33.856 --> 00:00:38.224
and put them all in there
because I didn't know what else to do.

00:00:38.456 --> 00:00:41.364
If he wanted to commit suicide,
there was nothing I could do

00:00:41.532 --> 00:00:43.080
but I wouldn't make it easy.

00:00:44.671 --> 00:00:48.583
To think that I swallowed
that shit for years and years.

00:00:51.052 --> 00:00:52.820
[MUSIC]

00:01:06.801 --> 00:01:08.923
Any questions or comments
from the committee?

00:01:09.270 --> 00:01:11.205
This time we'd like
to call David Cope.

00:01:14.906 --> 00:01:18.250
My name is Lieutenant Commander David Cope
of the United States Navy.

00:01:18.551 --> 00:01:21.282
I'm a 2007 graduate
of the Naval Academy at Annapolis

00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:24.813
and a 2012 graduate of MIT
with dual master's degrees

00:01:24.981 --> 00:01:27.523
in mechanical engineering
and naval architecture.

00:01:27.833 --> 00:01:29.601
At 32, I'm a disabled veteran,

00:01:29.769 --> 00:01:31.860
soon to be medically retired
from the Navy

00:01:32.305 --> 00:01:34.503
due to chronic health conditions
resulting from

00:01:34.692 --> 00:01:38.669
the use of the benzodiazepine Ativan,
as prescribed over several years.

00:01:39.802 --> 00:01:43.328
The indisputable reality of
short-term usefulness and long-term risk

00:01:43.549 --> 00:01:45.755
demands patients receive explicit

00:01:45.923 --> 00:01:48.475
informed consent prior to
benzodiazepine prescription.

00:01:48.651 --> 00:01:50.044
I cannot roll back the clock.

00:01:51.129 --> 00:01:53.332
I will not regain my career
as a naval officer.

00:01:53.781 --> 00:01:55.721
I'm not affiliated
with any organization.

00:01:56.617 --> 00:02:01.071
The Dave that I fell in love with
had so much energy.

00:02:01.255 --> 00:02:03.772
He was the happiest person I'd ever met.

00:02:04.025 --> 00:02:07.720
He would go sailing, biking or hiking.

00:02:07.911 --> 00:02:10.290
And he was kind and patient.

00:02:10.465 --> 00:02:13.837
We talked for hours on end
about all kinds of things.

00:02:14.088 --> 00:02:15.923
I miss that a lot.

00:02:21.776 --> 00:02:23.711
I was a waitress in New York City.

00:02:24.871 --> 00:02:27.753
A pretty normal girl,
doing normal things.

00:02:27.921 --> 00:02:30.653
Nothing exceptional,
nothing not exceptional, just normal.

00:02:31.748 --> 00:02:34.108
My mind was clear.
I was happy.

00:02:34.555 --> 00:02:38.559
The only little issue I had was
I couldn't sleep.

00:02:39.090 --> 00:02:41.163
I'd get out at two or three
in the morning.

00:02:41.350 --> 00:02:45.649
I knew that my sleep issues
were related to working at night.

00:02:46.067 --> 00:02:48.535
So, I went to my doctor,
just my regular doctor.

00:02:48.750 --> 00:02:50.552
I'd see him maybe twice a year.

00:02:50.948 --> 00:02:53.068
I asked him for
something for sleep.

00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:55.703
He'd always say to me,
I'll never forget.

00:02:55.877 --> 00:02:57.418
He always hit me on my knee.

00:02:57.971 --> 00:03:01.823
"Just go to sleep, you're too young
not to be able to sleep."

00:03:02.370 --> 00:03:04.929
"I don't write prescriptions
for sleeping pills."

00:03:05.219 --> 00:03:08.023
"If you want that, you have
to get it from a psychiatrist."

00:03:08.423 --> 00:03:10.591
I then said,
"Yes, sure. Why not?"

00:03:11.128 --> 00:03:12.481
He gave me a referral.

00:03:12.827 --> 00:03:14.210
I took the referral

00:03:14.443 --> 00:03:17.643
and called a bunch of psychiatrists
and one doctor in Brooklyn said,

00:03:17.850 --> 00:03:19.830
"Yes, we're seeing patients.
Come on in."

00:03:20.344 --> 00:03:22.235
He gave me a prescription
for lorazepam.

00:03:22.416 --> 00:03:25.238
He told me to take two
in the day and two at night.

00:03:25.452 --> 00:03:28.813
I then said, "Why would I need to take
a sleeping pill during the day?

00:03:29.106 --> 00:03:30.877
I don't want to sleep
during the day."

00:03:31.112 --> 00:03:33.007
He said, "That is how it works."

00:03:33.694 --> 00:03:34.974
I said, "Okay."

00:03:37.418 --> 00:03:41.319
That's me right before I was
put on Klonopin the first time.

00:03:41.856 --> 00:03:44.944
I'd just got back from Iraq.
These are my brothers and sisters.

00:03:45.259 --> 00:03:47.494
This sister is a waitress now.

00:03:47.775 --> 00:03:51.398
I used to drive her daughter to school
and I just had the worst thoughts.

00:03:51.628 --> 00:03:54.648
Like the school's going to blow up,
all the kids would be dead.

00:03:55.074 --> 00:03:58.137
And then that thought created adrenaline.

00:03:58.658 --> 00:04:00.579
When the adrenaline kicked in,
I thought,

00:04:00.747 --> 00:04:03.073
"Oh my god, am I going be
the one who does it?"

00:04:03.344 --> 00:04:06.800
Then I thought, "Yes, Angie,
you're going to kill these kids."

00:04:07.127 --> 00:04:09.514
I'm sitting here
looking at my niece

00:04:09.733 --> 00:04:13.088
and the thoughts are so bad
that your teeth chatter.

00:04:13.588 --> 00:04:16.324
"Oh my God, I'm capable of that?
Are you kidding me?"

00:04:16.537 --> 00:04:19.255
You're horrified wondering
why you're thinking this stuff.

00:04:19.423 --> 00:04:21.995
This isn't like me.
I don't want to hurt anyone's kids.

00:04:22.163 --> 00:04:24.076
I love my niece.
This doesn't make sense.

00:04:24.244 --> 00:04:25.415
Why am I thinking this?

00:04:25.689 --> 00:04:28.703
I don't know.
It's like a chemical, mental torture.

00:04:29.744 --> 00:04:31.176
I was never like this.

00:04:32.165 --> 00:04:36.103
That's the scariest part,
because I don't know-- Is this my normal?

00:04:37.350 --> 00:04:40.224
Did Effexor do this to me?
Did Cymbalta do this to me?

00:04:40.768 --> 00:04:43.202
Did Geodon? Abilify?

00:04:43.989 --> 00:04:45.396
Which one?
Which one did it?

00:04:46.857 --> 00:04:49.956
[MUSIC]

00:05:34.670 --> 00:05:37.763
[BIRDS CHIRPING]

00:05:41.247 --> 00:05:43.834
[SEAGULLS CRYING & DOG BARKING]

00:05:44.002 --> 00:05:46.027
I was a restless child.

00:05:46.207 --> 00:05:48.561
I was always thinking ahead
about what comes next.

00:05:48.918 --> 00:05:52.198
My mom called me
the worrier of the house.

00:05:52.587 --> 00:05:55.327
I worried about the unknown,
things I couldn't control.

00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:57.155
I'd overthink them.

00:05:57.432 --> 00:06:01.165
My anxiety led me to be
very successful academically.

00:06:01.862 --> 00:06:05.092
I got accepted into the Naval Academy
in Annapolis, Maryland.

00:06:05.392 --> 00:06:07.374
After Annapolis, I did a few years

00:06:07.702 --> 00:06:10.347
on a destroyer based out of
Mayport, Florida.

00:06:10.538 --> 00:06:15.232
When you're at sea, you're training to be
the guy directing this ship where to go.

00:06:16.584 --> 00:06:22.008
It's great fun, but it's also
extremely high stress, but I loved it.

00:06:22.643 --> 00:06:26.008
I was pre-selected for
Satellite Systems Engineering

00:06:26.287 --> 00:06:27.872
which involved grad school.

00:06:28.127 --> 00:06:30.080
When I got the acceptance letter
from MIT,

00:06:30.248 --> 00:06:33.474
it was one of those moments
when you think, "This is not happening."

00:06:33.642 --> 00:06:36.434
"It must be a mistake."
But the stars had aligned

00:06:36.895 --> 00:06:38.548
and I was really happy.

00:06:39.059 --> 00:06:42.059
[MUSIC]

00:06:45.506 --> 00:06:47.849
Fall semester went off without a hitch.

00:06:48.114 --> 00:06:50.984
I'd started a romantic relationship
earlier that summer.

00:06:51.647 --> 00:06:56.190
The early spring is when
things started to fall apart.

00:06:56.717 --> 00:06:59.481
My romantic relationship kind of

00:07:00.475 --> 00:07:02.348
took a turn, became toxic.

00:07:02.979 --> 00:07:05.466
I was in distress,
I was overwhelmed.

00:07:05.634 --> 00:07:08.526
We had up to four to five
graduate-level courses a semester.

00:07:08.929 --> 00:07:13.267
So I sought out care from the mental
health clinic at MIT on campus.

00:07:14.089 --> 00:07:16.542
They diagnosed me with
generalized anxiety disorder.

00:07:16.837 --> 00:07:19.015
The presented solution
to my problems was

00:07:19.240 --> 00:07:22.402
a prescription for
the benzodiazepine Ativan,

00:07:22.715 --> 00:07:25.393
which I'd never previously
known about or taken,

00:07:25.760 --> 00:07:28.134
and Zoloft.

00:07:28.329 --> 00:07:30.189
They work as advertised.

00:07:30.357 --> 00:07:32.878
It's a very immediate effect,
it's very calming.

00:07:33.071 --> 00:07:35.850
All along the way,
I was noticing changes,

00:07:36.036 --> 00:07:39.933
and I distinctly remember the first time
I was concerned about it.

00:07:40.210 --> 00:07:43.493
I was a teacher's assistant
for some students doing ship design.

00:07:43.952 --> 00:07:48.227
I was running them through a program
I had used extensively for several years.

00:07:48.629 --> 00:07:52.743
I got to a point where
there was just a cognitive block.

00:07:53.180 --> 00:07:57.594
There was just a wall, a block.
I didn't know where to go next.

00:07:57.927 --> 00:08:00.354
I said,
"Doc, this really isn't working.

00:08:00.641 --> 00:08:03.021
I need something else.
What else could help me?"

00:08:04.218 --> 00:08:06.332
The solution was
to diagnose me with ADHD,

00:08:06.506 --> 00:08:08.865
put me on amphetamine
and from that point on,

00:08:09.072 --> 00:08:12.225
for about six to eight months beyond that,
everything was grand.

00:08:14.908 --> 00:08:18.506
Dave told me probably
on our third or fourth date

00:08:18.753 --> 00:08:21.057
that he was on medication

00:08:21.257 --> 00:08:23.924
for depression and ADHD.

00:08:24.285 --> 00:08:27.140
I have ADHD myself
and take medication for that.

00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:29.121
I had issues with depression

00:08:29.290 --> 00:08:31.772
and sought out help
and medication and counseling.

00:08:32.098 --> 00:08:34.481
It's kind of fairly normal now.

00:08:35.282 --> 00:08:38.291
I'd met the girl of my dreams,
I got engaged during that period.

00:08:38.478 --> 00:08:40.783
Work was great, loved it,
back to my normal--

00:08:41.091 --> 00:08:43.211
what I thought was my normal self.

00:08:44.032 --> 00:08:46.018
Somewhere in
the eight-month time range,

00:08:46.231 --> 00:08:48.799
I started noticing emotional flatness,

00:08:49.012 --> 00:08:50.585
some sexual dysfunction,

00:08:50.965 --> 00:08:54.166
difficulty remembering
what street we lived on.

00:08:54.586 --> 00:08:57.479
That whole period is just a blur,
I was a zombie.

00:08:57.859 --> 00:08:59.537
We had this big wedding planned.

00:08:59.723 --> 00:09:03.376
I remember telling my mom prior to it,
"Mom, I feel nothing."

00:09:03.746 --> 00:09:08.049
"I feel emotionally void of anything."

00:09:09.238 --> 00:09:11.483
That's when I went
to the psychiatrist and said,

00:09:11.651 --> 00:09:13.290
"This stuff isn't for me."

00:09:13.490 --> 00:09:16.237
"I need to get off it.
I think the drug's my problem."

00:09:16.537 --> 00:09:18.896
That's really when shit hit the fan.

00:09:19.794 --> 00:09:23.808
[MUSIC & BIRDS CHIRPING]

00:09:38.748 --> 00:09:41.205
It's going to be open,
they closed a lot.

00:09:41.398 --> 00:09:43.445
It's like the birth year,
or death year.

00:09:43.743 --> 00:09:45.979
-This long walk today will help.
-It will.

00:09:46.528 --> 00:09:49.328
I've always been close
with my parents, even as a child.

00:09:50.324 --> 00:09:53.120
I love school,
I like to be with my friends a lot.

00:09:53.307 --> 00:09:55.776
I feel comforted
just being around other people.

00:09:57.031 --> 00:10:01.151
When I was 11 years old, I moved
from Nashville to Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

00:10:01.575 --> 00:10:05.432
We moved a lot for my parents'
various jobs, which was very hard

00:10:06.252 --> 00:10:09.014
in terms of keeping lifelong friends.

00:10:09.301 --> 00:10:12.428
I would oftentimes just sit in my room
and listen to music

00:10:12.726 --> 00:10:16.552
and, honestly, I'd just mope around.

00:10:17.278 --> 00:10:20.671
I started having
a lot of anxiety about school and

00:10:20.909 --> 00:10:24.221
I was so anxious I got these stomachaches
where I didn't want to eat.

00:10:24.423 --> 00:10:28.343
I wouldn't eat breakfast or much lunch
because I had a stomachache.

00:10:28.672 --> 00:10:30.485
I noticed that she'd gotten thin.

00:10:30.789 --> 00:10:33.748
I blurted out,
"Do you think you might be anorexic?"

00:10:33.977 --> 00:10:37.484
She got on the scale and said,
"I think I lost 20 pounds."

00:10:37.824 --> 00:10:42.082
I totally freaked out and
got an appointment the same day.

00:10:42.335 --> 00:10:44.907
Toward the end, the therapist
asked me to come in.

00:10:45.292 --> 00:10:47.927
She said,
"I think what would really be best

00:10:48.194 --> 00:10:52.360
to kick-start this treatment
is for her to get on antidepressants."

00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.945
Wait a second,
we came here for the talk therapy.

00:10:56.168 --> 00:10:58.649
We didn't come here
to kick-start it with medication.

00:10:58.837 --> 00:11:00.890
That's why you go to a therapist,
I thought.

00:11:01.422 --> 00:11:05.464
Rebecka was prescribed
Zoloft for the first medication.

00:11:06.033 --> 00:11:08.085
She said it didn't really make
a difference.

00:11:08.464 --> 00:11:13.191
She didn't feel any better, but she also
didn't feel any worse at that time.

00:11:15.075 --> 00:11:17.477
When we saw her doctor again,

00:11:17.764 --> 00:11:19.544
the doctor switched her to Prozac.

00:11:20.265 --> 00:11:22.606
Shortly after,
I had a business trip

00:11:22.816 --> 00:11:24.191
and Rebecka called me

00:11:24.444 --> 00:11:28.822
and she said,
"I've been seeing this little girl."

00:11:29.446 --> 00:11:32.500
And I asked, "What do you mean
you've been seeing a little girl?"

00:11:33.575 --> 00:11:37.315
"She's not really there, but I can see her
and I named her Alice."

00:11:37.664 --> 00:11:40.827
I genuinely thought that
there were people here in the room

00:11:41.549 --> 00:11:44.735
that weren't there,
that people could also see,

00:11:45.355 --> 00:11:48.595
but they were very real for me.

00:11:49.009 --> 00:11:52.107
In my head, I knew I knew
that they weren't there.

00:11:52.373 --> 00:11:55.033
But they were there
and I couldn't explain that away!

00:11:55.402 --> 00:11:57.458
I said,
"Rebecka, does it scare you?"

00:11:57.701 --> 00:12:00.465
She said, "No, not really.
Alice doesn't seem to do much."

00:12:00.726 --> 00:12:04.463
So, it was a benign hallucination
at that time.

00:12:05.752 --> 00:12:08.052
And so, we were alarmed,

00:12:08.312 --> 00:12:11.416
but we didn't want to overreact either.

00:12:11.712 --> 00:12:14.037
One of people that I'd--

00:12:14.584 --> 00:12:17.225
the real, "not real" people
that I had been seeing

00:12:17.632 --> 00:12:20.598
sort of interacted with me.

00:12:20.961 --> 00:12:25.210
That kept me in check with reality,
they're not saying or doing anything.

00:12:25.403 --> 00:12:28.011
They can't touch you,
they're not there, it's fine.

00:12:28.354 --> 00:12:30.393
I went into my parents' room

00:12:31.586 --> 00:12:34.468
shaking, frightened, crying.

00:12:34.643 --> 00:12:36.410
I told them what had just happened.

00:12:36.696 --> 00:12:39.695
She came into our bedroom
late at night

00:12:40.589 --> 00:12:42.802
and she was shaking.

00:12:43.197 --> 00:12:44.655
She said,

00:12:44.995 --> 00:12:47.995
"The hallucination touched me

00:12:48.636 --> 00:12:51.480
and asked me to come
into the kitchen

00:12:51.987 --> 00:12:53.514
so I could hurt myself."

00:12:54.040 --> 00:12:57.944
They said,
"Enough of this. She needs help."

00:12:59.847 --> 00:13:03.217
[MUSIC]

00:13:22.787 --> 00:13:25.146
I didn't even know people
could have sleep issues.

00:13:25.339 --> 00:13:28.274
I'd slept normally all my life,
so I'd never thought about it.

00:13:28.507 --> 00:13:30.474
I had a feeling
it was my job.

00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:32.865
I just didn't think
I could quit my job.

00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:34.759
I thought I'd get help for it.

00:13:35.001 --> 00:13:37.185
That's how come
I went to a psychiatrist

00:13:37.789 --> 00:13:41.053
and he prescribed this drug,
lorazepam, that I took for six years.

00:13:41.294 --> 00:13:44.247
-Wait, you took lorazepam for six years?
-Six-and-a-half years.

00:13:44.434 --> 00:13:47.987
Unfortunately, that's the problem that
most pharmacists see with lorazepam.

00:13:48.534 --> 00:13:51.905
Lorazepam--
Again, if the doctor takes the time

00:13:52.474 --> 00:13:55.261
to read the package insert,
it clearly states--

00:13:55.429 --> 00:13:57.157
-Are they not reading?
-I don't know.

00:13:57.364 --> 00:13:58.991
I can only tell you what I read.

00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:01.968
The package insert
from the manufacturer clearly states

00:14:02.456 --> 00:14:04.910
that lorazepam is only
for short-term use,

00:14:05.137 --> 00:14:06.709
maybe two to four weeks.

00:14:06.973 --> 00:14:09.839
Lorazepam hasn't been studied
for long-term therapy.

00:14:10.284 --> 00:14:13.487
I asked him,
"Can I take this drug?"

00:14:14.520 --> 00:14:17.787
"Are you sure it's not dangerous?
I can stop when I want?"

00:14:18.346 --> 00:14:19.926
He said,
"Yes, yes, yes."

00:14:20.287 --> 00:14:22.693
It did help me to sleep,
I slept like a rock.

00:14:22.977 --> 00:14:26.782
The use of benzodiazepines has
increased tremendously over the years.

00:14:27.066 --> 00:14:29.516
Since they've been around
for such a long time,

00:14:29.723 --> 00:14:32.604
a lot of doctors have forgotten
about the side effects

00:14:32.884 --> 00:14:34.918
and possible dangers
of these medications.

00:14:35.241 --> 00:14:37.454
None of them were ever meant
for long-term use.

00:14:37.622 --> 00:14:39.247
But everybody knows somebody

00:14:39.661 --> 00:14:41.954
who's been taking
benzodiazepines for years.

00:14:42.631 --> 00:14:45.834
[MUSIC]

00:15:07.308 --> 00:15:10.498
I started thinking, "When did this start?
How did this start?

00:15:10.718 --> 00:15:12.850
What led up to me falling apart?"

00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.855
I was the go-to person in my unit.
Always.

00:15:16.678 --> 00:15:19.178
If they needed a job done right,
they would ask me.

00:15:19.906 --> 00:15:21.972
I was physically fit,
knew my job.

00:15:22.179 --> 00:15:23.779
I got promoted to sergeant.

00:15:24.619 --> 00:15:26.219
After work, I was a lot of fun.

00:15:26.452 --> 00:15:28.786
I liked to travel,
go to the beach, spontaneous.

00:15:29.058 --> 00:15:31.744
I was the happy person,
the happy-go-lucky friend.

00:15:32.025 --> 00:15:34.235
"Hey, let's go shopping!
Let's go to a bakery!"

00:15:35.001 --> 00:15:37.281
Never had a second thought
about anything crazy.

00:15:38.031 --> 00:15:39.251
That was me before this.

00:15:40.640 --> 00:15:44.577
When the war started, I think most of it
was stressful situations every day.

00:15:44.797 --> 00:15:48.766
Like being shot at in convoys, driving
around in dangerous areas of Baghdad.

00:15:49.169 --> 00:15:52.272
Your head was constantly scanning
for something dangerous.

00:15:52.685 --> 00:15:54.447
All the soldiers in my unit
would say,

00:15:54.615 --> 00:15:57.307
"A letter for my mom is
in the pocket of my flak jacket."

00:15:57.999 --> 00:16:00.494
Or, "A letter to my dad
is in my helmet.

00:16:00.734 --> 00:16:02.921
So, if I die, please give it
to my parents."

00:16:03.102 --> 00:16:05.067
I said,
"I'm not writing a fucking letter,

00:16:05.276 --> 00:16:07.395
because I'm not going to die in this.
Sorry."

00:16:07.916 --> 00:16:09.623
I'm going to be
a strong sergeant.

00:16:10.169 --> 00:16:12.415
I don't take no shit.
That's just the way I was.

00:16:12.739 --> 00:16:15.002
The first two months
I was in Baghdad,

00:16:15.215 --> 00:16:16.589
I was really, really sick.

00:16:16.763 --> 00:16:18.696
I had nosebleeds,
fainting, dizziness.

00:16:19.017 --> 00:16:22.871
I lost 40 pounds, so they medevacked me
out of Iraq.

00:16:23.890 --> 00:16:26.429
Then my convoy got hit
the day after I got medevacked.

00:16:26.719 --> 00:16:29.219
I saw the kid come back in,
one of my soldiers,

00:16:29.458 --> 00:16:32.865
and I felt horrible and
that was the day that I saw

00:16:33.152 --> 00:16:36.237
"Psychiatry" with the arrow
and I walked straight there.

00:16:36.450 --> 00:16:38.065
That's what you do.
I don't know.

00:16:38.238 --> 00:16:40.575
They put me on Klonopin
and all this started.

00:16:41.087 --> 00:16:44.672
They're trained while they're on
active duty, very systematically

00:16:44.881 --> 00:16:48.194
that if you come back and have problems,
you need to go to the doctor.

00:16:48.442 --> 00:16:50.934
A hundred years ago,
if they had this kind of trauma,

00:16:51.121 --> 00:16:54.742
they'd talk to their fellow soldiers,
parents, friends, or pastor.

00:16:54.955 --> 00:16:58.205
Instead, they're going to their doctor
and getting medicated.

00:16:58.584 --> 00:17:01.788
I saw the sign for psychiatry,
I walked down the hall.

00:17:02.082 --> 00:17:05.339
I remember it was a really small office
and I was sitting in a chair.

00:17:05.899 --> 00:17:08.365
It was a major, I remember that.

00:17:08.598 --> 00:17:12.658
I said, "Sir, every time I hear
a door slam, it sounds like a gunshot."

00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:14.700
"My mind is racing.
I need help."

00:17:14.868 --> 00:17:17.940
Then he said, "Take this medicine.
It'll make you feel better."

00:17:18.127 --> 00:17:20.401
I got the prescription
and started taking it.

00:17:21.001 --> 00:17:23.701
I think the Klonopin was starting
to make me worse,

00:17:23.876 --> 00:17:25.368
but they kept telling me,

00:17:25.550 --> 00:17:27.875
"That's what PTSD is.
You have PTSD now."

00:17:28.108 --> 00:17:30.021
I remember he looked at me and said,

00:17:30.503 --> 00:17:33.416
"We're going to start the proceedings
for medical retirement."

00:17:34.106 --> 00:17:37.141
"You're not able to be around soldiers
and no weapons."

00:17:37.418 --> 00:17:38.618
I remember feeling,

00:17:38.804 --> 00:17:41.991
"How was I 'Super Soldier'
and now I'm disabled at 25?"

00:17:42.616 --> 00:17:43.864
Are you kidding?

00:17:44.077 --> 00:17:46.867
There is a post-traumatic stress,
and it's a problem.

00:17:47.153 --> 00:17:49.988
We'd never argue with you about that
because it's a problem.

00:17:50.253 --> 00:17:52.382
A big problem,
but it's not a mental illness.

00:17:52.639 --> 00:17:54.672
I feel like I'm waking up
from a nightmare.

00:17:54.840 --> 00:17:56.711
"What the fuck
happened to my life?"

00:17:56.969 --> 00:17:59.351
You lost years of your life,
you lost your career.

00:17:59.526 --> 00:18:02.794
There are just so many things
that are losses in here.

00:18:03.115 --> 00:18:07.029
That's part of the situation
that we're in right now as a culture.

00:18:07.267 --> 00:18:09.636
If you run to the doctor
and cry about this,

00:18:09.816 --> 00:18:12.855
they'll say, "It's major depression"
and give you another pill,

00:18:13.028 --> 00:18:16.128
instead of telling you that
suffering is the only normal response.

00:18:16.817 --> 00:18:19.535
There's a grief process
that you have to go through.

00:18:20.414 --> 00:18:21.448
Wow.

00:18:23.713 --> 00:18:25.007
A little bit about myself.

00:18:25.932 --> 00:18:29.088
Actually, for the military in here,
there's my résumé.

00:18:30.422 --> 00:18:32.436
This is what my children
love to point out.

00:18:32.628 --> 00:18:34.592
My daughters love
to tell their boyfriends

00:18:34.772 --> 00:18:37.221
not to mess with me
because their mother won't miss.

00:18:37.576 --> 00:18:41.004
I'm a board-certified clinical
psychologist and I'll be talking about

00:18:41.211 --> 00:18:43.744
science, reality and the research.

00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:45.559
People come home from war

00:18:45.864 --> 00:18:49.677
and they're frequently grieving
and suffering tremendously.

00:18:49.908 --> 00:18:51.938
But none of that's pathology,
it's grief.

00:18:52.634 --> 00:18:54.874
One of the things
that's happened in our culture

00:18:55.075 --> 00:18:57.035
is that "normal"
has been confused

00:18:57.329 --> 00:18:59.954
by marketers of all kinds
with "comfortable".

00:19:00.218 --> 00:19:03.676
If you're in a "normal" state,
you must also be in a "comfortable" state.

00:19:03.891 --> 00:19:07.824
And if you're uncomfortable in any way,
there's something wrong, you're abnormal.

00:19:08.084 --> 00:19:09.751
Not one thing in the DSM-5--

00:19:09.983 --> 00:19:12.283
this book,
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual,

00:19:12.470 --> 00:19:14.490
the 5th Edition,
the bible of psychiatry--

00:19:14.716 --> 00:19:17.324
not one thing in there
is isolated by science.

00:19:17.595 --> 00:19:20.168
There are no physical findings,
no PET scan, no MRI.

00:19:20.458 --> 00:19:22.178
There's no blood test.

00:19:22.392 --> 00:19:24.838
There's just behavior that has been

00:19:25.058 --> 00:19:27.944
described by psychiatry
and labeled aberrant.

00:19:28.585 --> 00:19:31.052
It's outside of what we consider "normal".

00:19:31.271 --> 00:19:33.865
And they set a cutoff
and they vote it into this book.

00:19:34.418 --> 00:19:37.175
How did we decide you could have
acute stress disorder

00:19:37.343 --> 00:19:39.397
for 3 to 28 days?

00:19:39.719 --> 00:19:43.068
A committee sat around and said,
"What do you think?"

00:19:43.349 --> 00:19:45.650
"How many days should people
be in acute stress?"

00:19:45.869 --> 00:19:48.490
They said, "I don't know.
"How about 28 days?"

00:19:48.690 --> 00:19:52.096
Why 28 days? It's four weeks.
It's four outpatient visits.

00:19:52.310 --> 00:19:53.977
It's a beautiful billing cutoff.

00:19:54.228 --> 00:19:56.088
It seemed right.
"All in favor?"

00:19:57.679 --> 00:19:59.465
Bam. Those are the clinical criteria.

00:19:59.899 --> 00:20:03.433
The power that I had
as a military psychologist to say,

00:20:03.755 --> 00:20:05.132
"You are not normal."

00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:07.678
I could destroy your career,
I can send you home.

00:20:07.947 --> 00:20:11.113
I can label you with something
that you can never overcome.

00:20:14.513 --> 00:20:17.042
My name is Allen Frances,
I'm a psychiatrist,

00:20:17.615 --> 00:20:20.673
former Chair of Psychiatry
at Duke University

00:20:21.001 --> 00:20:23.408
and was the Chair
of the DSM-4 Task Force,

00:20:23.643 --> 00:20:26.737
which established the definitions
for the diagnoses

00:20:26.905 --> 00:20:28.811
of the various mental disorders.

00:20:29.374 --> 00:20:30.888
Normal is in danger.

00:20:31.851 --> 00:20:34.001
The definitions used in psychiatry,

00:20:34.447 --> 00:20:36.313
and even more,
the way they're applied,

00:20:36.529 --> 00:20:38.625
have become so wide that

00:20:38.858 --> 00:20:41.120
a far too large percentage
of the population

00:20:41.320 --> 00:20:43.527
would be defined
as having a mental disorder.

00:20:44.010 --> 00:20:45.508
Now we have patients come in,

00:20:45.721 --> 00:20:49.023
and if they're anxious or can't sleep
or have some physical pain,

00:20:49.248 --> 00:20:51.495
it's like,
"My gosh, let's get rid of that."

00:20:51.915 --> 00:20:54.255
We have really vilified pain.

00:20:54.541 --> 00:20:57.134
And I'm talking emotional pain,
physical pain.

00:20:57.356 --> 00:20:59.800
It has now become the responsibility
of the doctor

00:21:00.054 --> 00:21:02.808
to eliminate all suffering at all cost.

00:21:03.075 --> 00:21:07.455
Some patients require the very closest
in psychiatric and medical supervision,

00:21:07.629 --> 00:21:09.529
very, very tough problems.

00:21:09.842 --> 00:21:13.772
Most people presenting
to a doctor for anxiety

00:21:14.321 --> 00:21:17.925
have a short-term stressor
that's making them feel terrible.

00:21:18.470 --> 00:21:21.775
Most of the symptoms will go away
in most people

00:21:21.968 --> 00:21:23.803
within a few weeks or a month.

00:21:24.076 --> 00:21:27.836
We shouldn't confuse
normal sadness and normal anxiety

00:21:28.036 --> 00:21:29.883
with mental disorder.

00:21:30.104 --> 00:21:32.230
That line has been terribly blurred.

00:21:32.886 --> 00:21:34.863
There is a cultural context,

00:21:35.054 --> 00:21:36.798
and the context really goes back to

00:21:37.002 --> 00:21:39.358
the arrival of antibiotics in late 1940s,

00:21:39.571 --> 00:21:41.405
and then the polio vaccine.

00:21:41.721 --> 00:21:43.923
They really do change life.

00:21:44.397 --> 00:21:46.549
Bacterial infections are
no longer a problem

00:21:46.717 --> 00:21:48.736
and now we have
a magic cure for polio.

00:21:49.408 --> 00:21:51.263
So now we believe in magic bullets.

00:21:51.436 --> 00:21:53.629
We'll soon have magic bullets
for everything.

00:21:54.962 --> 00:21:58.036
[MUSIC]

00:22:28.852 --> 00:22:32.579
What you find in psychiatry, if you trace
its history, is that in the 1970s,

00:22:32.831 --> 00:22:35.126
American psychiatry was in competition

00:22:35.357 --> 00:22:38.544
with other therapists for talk therapy:
counselors, social workers.

00:22:38.812 --> 00:22:40.814
What do they say to themselves?

00:22:40.993 --> 00:22:44.128
They say, "We need to present
ourselves as medical doctors."

00:22:44.308 --> 00:22:46.115
"We need to put on a white coat."

00:22:46.659 --> 00:22:50.616
They adopt a disease model
for categorizing psychiatric disorder.

00:22:50.890 --> 00:22:55.023
"We'll say these are diseases
of the brain, illnesses of the brain

00:22:55.270 --> 00:22:57.814
and our drugs treat the symptoms
of those illnesses."

00:22:58.085 --> 00:23:01.355
It centers on this chemical imbalance
theory of mental disorders.

00:23:01.935 --> 00:23:04.111
What I was taught
in med school was that

00:23:04.377 --> 00:23:08.128
depression, for example, is a genetic,
chemical imbalance in the brain

00:23:08.348 --> 00:23:11.568
affecting serotonin and
that it's corrected with a pill.

00:23:12.255 --> 00:23:14.528
And there is this understanding that,

00:23:14.828 --> 00:23:18.616
if you're manifesting with depression,
that this is you,

00:23:18.903 --> 00:23:20.928
it's who you'll be,
like a destiny.

00:23:21.201 --> 00:23:24.430
And that implies taking medication,
often for life.

00:23:24.770 --> 00:23:27.305
It hasn't been possible
to demonstrate

00:23:27.573 --> 00:23:30.102
that first you have a chemical imbalance

00:23:30.382 --> 00:23:34.503
and then, because of that,
you become depressed or psychotic.

00:23:34.908 --> 00:23:37.468
But what we have shown is that

00:23:37.636 --> 00:23:40.135
the drugs create a chemical imbalance.

00:23:40.427 --> 00:23:43.740
Nobody has a clue what happens

00:23:44.281 --> 00:23:46.952
when you push this system somewhere.

00:23:47.278 --> 00:23:49.588
You have all sorts
of reactions elsewhere.

00:23:49.936 --> 00:23:52.506
It's a very naive thought that

00:23:52.674 --> 00:23:56.014
a psychiatric disorder is based on one...

00:23:57.054 --> 00:24:00.097
one single thing chemically
that went wrong,

00:24:00.313 --> 00:24:02.577
and then we have a quick fix for that.

00:24:02.810 --> 00:24:05.466
It's totally naive.

00:24:05.717 --> 00:24:07.136
While the cause is unknown,

00:24:07.304 --> 00:24:10.260
depression may be related to
an imbalance of natural chemicals

00:24:10.447 --> 00:24:12.083
between nerve cells in the brain.

00:24:12.251 --> 00:24:15.220
Prescription Zoloft works
to correct this imbalance.

00:24:15.388 --> 00:24:18.992
When you know more about what's wrong,
you can help make it right.

00:24:19.423 --> 00:24:22.230
In 1980,
the American Psychiatric Association

00:24:22.544 --> 00:24:26.831
adopted a disease model and began
telling that story to the American public.

00:24:27.100 --> 00:24:29.199
Do you know who was
so happy with that story?

00:24:29.412 --> 00:24:32.393
The pharmaceutical industry!
They were thrilled with this story

00:24:32.593 --> 00:24:34.752
because now they could see
markets expanding.

00:24:34.966 --> 00:24:38.196
Depression, anxiety, all these things
that we used to think of as

00:24:38.420 --> 00:24:42.013
sort of normal fluctuations
in human experience

00:24:42.203 --> 00:24:46.003
could now be seen as illnesses you could
treat with drugs, and they said, "Wow!"

00:24:48.354 --> 00:24:50.548
Is depression more than sadness?

00:24:54.386 --> 00:24:57.022
It's a tangle of multiple symptoms.

00:24:57.203 --> 00:25:00.690
It's basically reduced down to:
"It must be a chemical problem."

00:25:00.897 --> 00:25:03.770
Since it's a chemical problem,
there's a pill to fix it.

00:25:04.223 --> 00:25:07.438
That has, of course, been a boon
for the pharmaceutical industry,

00:25:07.973 --> 00:25:10.821
which now wants to diseasify
every single experience

00:25:11.041 --> 00:25:13.441
because they want to sell
their pills to treat it.

00:25:13.953 --> 00:25:17.279
Binge eating disorder, or BED,
isn't just overeating.

00:25:17.499 --> 00:25:19.199
It's a real medical condition.

00:25:19.419 --> 00:25:21.658
Certain chemicals in the brain
may play a role.

00:25:21.874 --> 00:25:25.311
BED is also the most common
eating disorder in US adults.

00:25:28.152 --> 00:25:31.172
[MUSIC]

00:25:36.180 --> 00:25:40.631
I never really thought that
the medication was a bad thing.

00:25:40.907 --> 00:25:43.747
I thought if this'll make me
feel better, awesome.

00:25:43.942 --> 00:25:46.345
If this other one'll make me
feel better, awesome.

00:25:46.575 --> 00:25:48.816
Oh, if these four will make me
feel better,

00:25:48.984 --> 00:25:51.236
great, let's do it,
I will try anything.

00:25:51.650 --> 00:25:54.660
There was never any notion that

00:25:54.970 --> 00:25:57.291
the medication was causing these symptoms.

00:25:57.478 --> 00:26:00.291
Rather, it was like
the disease was developing.

00:26:00.571 --> 00:26:04.519
The only warning she gave,
but she was very dismissive about it, was,

00:26:04.745 --> 00:26:09.155
"You might hear, Mr. Green,
that in some instances,

00:26:09.375 --> 00:26:12.612
people who are on antidepressants
might have suicidal thoughts,

00:26:12.799 --> 00:26:15.768
but this isn't something
you should be overly concerned about."

00:26:16.028 --> 00:26:18.211
She said, almost flippantly,

00:26:18.379 --> 00:26:20.545
"You might want to
lock up your knives."

00:26:20.846 --> 00:26:22.714
-So we went out and bought...
-We did.

00:26:22.988 --> 00:26:25.201
a lock box

00:26:25.611 --> 00:26:29.637
and put anything dangerous in there.

00:26:29.921 --> 00:26:32.177
That's really when
it sunk in even more.

00:26:32.390 --> 00:26:34.484
Like, "Wow, this is serious."

00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.607
So I was hospitalized that first time

00:26:37.775 --> 00:26:39.507
when I was 13.

00:26:39.806 --> 00:26:42.606
Over the course of a year,
I think I was hospitalized

00:26:42.799 --> 00:26:44.964
seven or eight times.

00:26:45.270 --> 00:26:47.654
Leaving her in a hospital,
a psychiatric hospital,

00:26:47.858 --> 00:26:50.526
this was not our life,
this was not our daughter.

00:26:50.740 --> 00:26:52.348
We knew our daughter,
we knew--

00:26:52.542 --> 00:26:54.814
a few months before
that she had been sort of

00:26:55.547 --> 00:26:59.339
a little depressed, melancholy,
but this was a far leap from that.

00:26:59.739 --> 00:27:03.811
Once in the hospital, there,
they added an antipsychotic

00:27:04.057 --> 00:27:07.076
because she was now
experiencing psychotic behaviors.

00:27:07.326 --> 00:27:10.022
In addition, they had to prescribe
another medication

00:27:10.222 --> 00:27:13.947
to take care of the known
side effects of the antipsychotic.

00:27:14.232 --> 00:27:17.288
We didn't really know what else
to do when we were in the system.

00:27:17.521 --> 00:27:19.697
We wanted to trust the experts.

00:27:19.977 --> 00:27:22.451
So, we went that route.

00:27:22.741 --> 00:27:25.548
The more medications they added,
I got side effects,

00:27:25.792 --> 00:27:28.762
and then they'd add medication
to cure the side effects.

00:27:29.081 --> 00:27:31.550
On and on it went,
and I think at one point,

00:27:31.718 --> 00:27:33.827
I was on six or seven at one time.

00:27:34.099 --> 00:27:35.838
I could not reach her.

00:27:36.126 --> 00:27:38.253
She was in some other place.

00:27:38.533 --> 00:27:41.973
And that was probably
the scariest moment for us.

00:27:42.194 --> 00:27:45.807
She wouldn't respond if we talked to her,
she was clearly in another world.

00:27:46.053 --> 00:27:48.641
We kept thinking,
"Have we lost her?"

00:27:48.961 --> 00:27:51.167
"Have we lost our daughter?"

00:27:51.582 --> 00:27:55.853
We thought, "She's just going to be in
our basement, for the rest of her life."

00:27:57.216 --> 00:28:00.156
My mind was just filled
with horrible thoughts

00:28:01.171 --> 00:28:03.518
about me and
about how horrible I was

00:28:03.738 --> 00:28:05.497
and how much I hated myself.

00:28:05.812 --> 00:28:09.205
And what is even the point of me
being here anymore?

00:28:10.689 --> 00:28:14.483
Many, many people are getting
an antidepressant, an antipsychotic,

00:28:14.693 --> 00:28:17.636
a benzodiazepine and a sleep medicine

00:28:18.003 --> 00:28:20.269
without any rhyme or reason.

00:28:20.567 --> 00:28:23.607
And instead of the beneficial effects,

00:28:23.873 --> 00:28:26.852
of these different medicines
adding up to something wonderful,

00:28:27.433 --> 00:28:31.159
very often, their harmful effects
add up to something terrible.

00:28:31.643 --> 00:28:34.569
When I got out of the Army
and went into the VA system,

00:28:34.795 --> 00:28:36.830
it was like
a whole other ballgame.

00:28:37.115 --> 00:28:41.366
It turned into cocktails of
antipsychotic, antidepressant, benzo.

00:28:42.013 --> 00:28:44.194
I said to the clinician,

00:28:44.594 --> 00:28:46.200
"I don't have good feelings."

00:28:46.413 --> 00:28:48.673
"All I feel is numb
or anxious or depressed."

00:28:48.949 --> 00:28:52.283
I don't ever feel happy
or grateful or loving."

00:28:52.692 --> 00:28:54.439
Then, "We'll add another medicine."

00:28:54.666 --> 00:28:57.679
"Maybe that one's not working,
we'll switch to a different one."

00:28:58.197 --> 00:29:02.040
So, basically, my medication history
is just a succession of,

00:29:02.525 --> 00:29:05.485
"Doesn't work, let's use the highest dose
and see what happens.

00:29:05.743 --> 00:29:07.589
Okay, it didn't work.
Come back down.

00:29:07.809 --> 00:29:09.735
That didn't work,
let's try another one."

00:29:10.048 --> 00:29:13.905
It's like a hamster wheel
that I never got off of until now.

00:29:14.420 --> 00:29:17.126
What happens to someone
like Angie is that

00:29:17.326 --> 00:29:20.620
when they get on these medications
and they begin to deteriorate,

00:29:21.007 --> 00:29:23.660
the attribution is to
their mental condition

00:29:23.828 --> 00:29:26.033
as opposed to
to the medication.

00:29:26.298 --> 00:29:28.226
So, when they go in and they say,

00:29:28.449 --> 00:29:31.373
"You gave me an antidepressant
and now I'm really depressed",

00:29:31.579 --> 00:29:34.319
then they say, "Well, I see
your depression is worsening."

00:29:34.603 --> 00:29:36.650
So they up it or add a medication.

00:29:36.942 --> 00:29:38.726
Next, they're on uppers and downers.

00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:41.220
You see this pattern
and every time they go in,

00:29:41.413 --> 00:29:43.540
it's their deteriorating mental condition,

00:29:43.867 --> 00:29:47.086
instead of somebody saying,
"Your drug may be your problem."

00:29:48.148 --> 00:29:51.162
[MUSIC]

00:30:01.816 --> 00:30:02.848
Hi!

00:30:04.156 --> 00:30:06.243
-How are you?
-Nice to see you!

00:30:06.423 --> 00:30:08.143
-Nice to meet you.
-You too.

00:30:08.311 --> 00:30:09.430
Thank you for coming.

00:30:10.069 --> 00:30:11.429
It's awesome to be here.

00:30:11.623 --> 00:30:14.590
I'm so nervous because I can't
talk like this at my own school.

00:30:14.836 --> 00:30:17.510
[LAUGHTER]

00:30:18.276 --> 00:30:21.803
I want to just run through my story
quickly and then just talk because

00:30:22.029 --> 00:30:23.903
I'm sure you have
really cool questions.

00:30:24.337 --> 00:30:26.170
I was on 17 medications at once.

00:30:26.486 --> 00:30:29.429
And then, basically, from 2006 to 2016

00:30:29.655 --> 00:30:32.297
it took me all that time
to get off of everything else.

00:30:33.068 --> 00:30:36.456
Every time you went in and you were
prescribed some of these medications

00:30:36.668 --> 00:30:38.681
what were you told about
the side effects?

00:30:38.914 --> 00:30:42.707
How much information were you given
before you were given this medication?

00:30:42.982 --> 00:30:46.174
In the office, you have 10 minutes
with the psychiatrist, that's it.

00:30:46.384 --> 00:30:49.031
They ask, "How are you feeling today?"
and you say,

00:30:49.414 --> 00:30:52.140
"I'm still really anxious
and I didn't sleep last week."

00:30:53.044 --> 00:30:55.944
And they say,
"I want you to take this little quiz."

00:30:56.288 --> 00:30:59.539
Do you feel jumpy in public?
Do you spend time with friends?

00:30:59.858 --> 00:31:01.824
It was just a psychological assessment.

00:31:02.069 --> 00:31:04.264
I'm filling out the little test
and he takes it

00:31:04.465 --> 00:31:06.234
and I see him pull out the DSM

00:31:06.479 --> 00:31:10.016
and he says,
"You have generalized anxiety disorder."

00:31:10.224 --> 00:31:13.152
I think, "What is another label
going to do for me now?"

00:31:13.432 --> 00:31:15.057
"Really? Another label!
Thank you!"

00:31:15.244 --> 00:31:17.368
Now I have addict, PTSD,
generalized anxiety,

00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:20.117
panic disorder with agoraphobia,
major depression.

00:31:20.364 --> 00:31:21.538
For what?

00:31:21.706 --> 00:31:24.284
What do any of those labels do for me?
Nothing.

00:31:24.478 --> 00:31:27.578
I'm doing everything you tell me to do
and I'm not getting better.

00:31:28.747 --> 00:31:32.489
So, the most hurtful part of all of this
that I want you to listen to is that

00:31:32.895 --> 00:31:34.969
I did all the therapy,
I saw social workers,

00:31:35.197 --> 00:31:37.256
therapists, psychiatrists, psychologists.

00:31:37.436 --> 00:31:40.577
Not once did somebody say,
"It could be your meds."

00:31:40.958 --> 00:31:43.078
Not once in 13 years.

00:31:43.557 --> 00:31:45.784
That is what hurts me the most.

00:31:46.072 --> 00:31:49.206
Now, I'm in social work school.
I have all As.

00:31:49.743 --> 00:31:51.494
My brain is coming back!

00:31:51.662 --> 00:31:53.103
[APPLAUSE]

00:31:53.271 --> 00:31:54.854
I can write a mean APA paper.

00:31:55.102 --> 00:31:57.215
[LAUGHTER]

00:31:58.645 --> 00:32:02.058
You were saying that a lot of these meds
that are being prescribed

00:32:02.262 --> 00:32:05.404
for four to six years should only
be taken for a few weeks.

00:32:05.632 --> 00:32:07.217
Is there a place for medications?

00:32:07.411 --> 00:32:09.664
Would you help someone
make that decision?

00:32:10.289 --> 00:32:12.285
At the beginning I was anti-med.

00:32:12.466 --> 00:32:14.546
Like, no way.
Hell no.

00:32:14.792 --> 00:32:17.424
Because I'm lucky I didn't kill myself
or someone else.

00:32:17.951 --> 00:32:20.777
How can I say,
"Go ahead, take those meds?"

00:32:21.033 --> 00:32:23.136
There are times when some people--

00:32:23.336 --> 00:32:25.496
when I say "some",
I mean very few--

00:32:25.865 --> 00:32:28.718
So, I'm not anti-med,
I'm pro-informed consent.

00:32:29.428 --> 00:32:32.825
If you, as a social worker, want to talk
to them about informed consent,

00:32:33.031 --> 00:32:34.506
that's within our boundaries.

00:32:34.774 --> 00:32:37.544
We get it for surgery,
why aren't we getting it for meds?

00:32:38.337 --> 00:32:41.266
You said you're uncomfortable
with the labels you were given.

00:32:41.466 --> 00:32:43.765
If you could change that label,
what would it be?

00:32:45.164 --> 00:32:48.099
I think I was just scared.

00:32:48.628 --> 00:32:51.163
I was a scared little girl that was 24.

00:32:51.658 --> 00:32:55.062
And like, it didn't have to be
so complicated.

00:32:55.735 --> 00:32:56.769
You know?

00:32:59.178 --> 00:33:02.220
[MUSIC]

00:33:10.704 --> 00:33:14.812
I was first diagnosed with ADHD
when I was 15, I think.

00:33:15.328 --> 00:33:18.359
I remember it being a relief
to get the diagnosis.

00:33:18.743 --> 00:33:22.914
My gosh, that's why everything's so hard.

00:33:23.134 --> 00:33:26.678
It's not that I'm stupid.
It's not that I'm lazy.

00:33:27.300 --> 00:33:29.611
I was pretty severely depressed.

00:33:30.023 --> 00:33:33.526
I couldn't go to school,
I just cried all the time.

00:33:34.200 --> 00:33:36.330
Yes, just kind of a mess.

00:33:36.820 --> 00:33:39.816
At that point,
I was put on Dexedrine.

00:33:40.567 --> 00:33:45.346
I felt a ton better and was able
to go to school on a regular basis.

00:33:45.665 --> 00:33:48.970
I felt some hope again.

00:33:50.342 --> 00:33:52.710
I hear anecdotes that vary.

00:33:53.062 --> 00:33:56.797
Anecdotes of the great effects of drugs
and I would say that's about

00:33:57.883 --> 00:34:00.323
20% or 25% of anecdotes I hear.

00:34:00.518 --> 00:34:02.278
"This has been great for me."

00:34:02.472 --> 00:34:04.864
"This has helped me through
a very difficult time."

00:34:05.082 --> 00:34:08.671
About 40% say,
"It may have helped some."

00:34:08.922 --> 00:34:11.641
"It's hard to tell
what exactly it was doing."

00:34:11.864 --> 00:34:14.281
"I can't say it hurt me.
I can't say it helped me."

00:34:14.554 --> 00:34:17.233
"I seem indifferent to what
it may have done."

00:34:17.503 --> 00:34:20.508
Then I get the other 30% or 35%,
that say,

00:34:20.755 --> 00:34:22.855
"This hurt me.
This damaged me."

00:34:23.060 --> 00:34:24.879
That's the anecdotes
I've been hearing.

00:34:25.090 --> 00:34:29.353
And I think that details a little bit
what you find in the literature out there.

00:34:29.681 --> 00:34:31.567
When they come to see a doctor,

00:34:31.814 --> 00:34:34.374
they want that pill that they hope

00:34:34.567 --> 00:34:38.301
will take care of their problem
thoroughly and rapidly.

00:34:38.596 --> 00:34:40.425
And most of these medications

00:34:40.621 --> 00:34:42.891
will actually do that very well

00:34:43.069 --> 00:34:45.662
in the short term,
which makes this so hard.

00:34:45.868 --> 00:34:47.908
In the short term,
they really work.

00:34:48.412 --> 00:34:52.155
The reason that I changed
the way I practice

00:34:52.397 --> 00:34:55.778
was the realization that
I was harming my patients.

00:34:56.194 --> 00:34:59.971
It is very clear that
there is a cohort of patients

00:35:00.378 --> 00:35:04.903
for whom getting off of these drugs
is exquisitely painful.

00:35:05.418 --> 00:35:08.384
[MUSIC & DOG PANTING]

00:35:11.456 --> 00:35:13.916
When Dave decided
to go off the meds,

00:35:14.181 --> 00:35:17.448
I think he probably didn't share it
with me because he knew that

00:35:17.868 --> 00:35:20.268
they worked for me and
they were successful for me.

00:35:20.482 --> 00:35:22.102
But that wasn't the case for him.

00:35:22.418 --> 00:35:26.118
She knew something was different.
She knew something was wrong.

00:35:26.332 --> 00:35:29.360
I was having a lot of irritability
and difficulty communicating.

00:35:29.540 --> 00:35:32.993
It created stress in our relationship
and we didn't talk about it much.

00:35:33.277 --> 00:35:35.800
I felt like the worst wife
in the world.

00:35:36.231 --> 00:35:38.146
I didn't know what was going on.

00:35:38.393 --> 00:35:41.365
Every day driving home,
I wondered what I could do differently.

00:35:43.137 --> 00:35:46.608
I'd say about four weeks later,
he shared with me that

00:35:46.828 --> 00:35:49.488
he had taken himself off
the medication.

00:35:50.745 --> 00:35:53.830
That was a huge relief to me.
"Okay, it's not me!"

00:35:54.084 --> 00:35:55.924
But, um...

00:35:56.388 --> 00:35:59.827
Yeah, he just became short and irritable.

00:36:00.055 --> 00:36:03.121
He wasn't positive anymore,
everything was negative.

00:36:03.356 --> 00:36:04.683
I was totally dysfunctional

00:36:05.383 --> 00:36:08.364
and began experiencing this...

00:36:09.241 --> 00:36:13.645
what I'll call, this irrational,
terror-like level of anxiety

00:36:14.173 --> 00:36:16.289
that I'd never previously experienced.

00:36:16.555 --> 00:36:20.159
I'd come home from work
and found him on the kitchen floor,

00:36:20.399 --> 00:36:23.757
curled up in a ball
just sobbing and rocking.

00:36:24.009 --> 00:36:27.212
He didn't want anybody to touch him

00:36:27.506 --> 00:36:30.146
or be anywhere near him.

00:36:30.569 --> 00:36:34.556
He'd go find a place to go hide
in the house

00:36:35.190 --> 00:36:37.803
and just sob uncontrollably.

00:36:38.343 --> 00:36:40.291
It was really hard to see.

00:36:40.582 --> 00:36:42.956
I got to a point
where I wholesale refused

00:36:43.377 --> 00:36:45.070
to consume any more drugs,

00:36:45.490 --> 00:36:48.193
and that kind of came to a head
several months ago.

00:36:49.220 --> 00:36:51.816
And that's why, right now,
we're separated.

00:36:52.216 --> 00:36:54.863
The breaking point for me
deciding to move out,

00:36:55.089 --> 00:36:56.936
there were a couple of things.

00:36:57.155 --> 00:36:59.464
He's of the mindset
it's just going to take time

00:36:59.632 --> 00:37:01.501
and there's nothing you can do.

00:37:01.707 --> 00:37:03.974
I said, "Here are the options I see."

00:37:04.228 --> 00:37:06.894
"They're mostly medically-based."

00:37:07.141 --> 00:37:09.654
And he absolutely refused.

00:37:10.328 --> 00:37:12.957
I explained my entire background
to my psychiatrist.

00:37:13.204 --> 00:37:15.291
I said I took pride
in being in the Navy.

00:37:15.510 --> 00:37:18.119
I took pride in surviving and
making it through MIT

00:37:18.304 --> 00:37:20.772
and I had high hopes
to do good things

00:37:20.940 --> 00:37:22.632
for the Navy and for the country.

00:37:22.893 --> 00:37:24.663
Now, I don't know who I am.

00:37:24.868 --> 00:37:27.476
And the only thing that's happened
between then and now

00:37:27.712 --> 00:37:31.248
is I've been exposed to a series
of very strong psychiatric medications.

00:37:32.235 --> 00:37:33.851
The answer after 20 minutes was,

00:37:34.064 --> 00:37:36.513
"Well, I can give you
a prescription for Cymbalta."

00:37:37.924 --> 00:37:41.400
[BIRDS CHIRPING & WATER BEING SPRAYED]

00:37:43.995 --> 00:37:47.030
When I did move out,
he called me and said

00:37:47.326 --> 00:37:50.319
he was standing in the basement
next to a noose and I said,

00:37:50.855 --> 00:37:53.911
"What's your safety plan?"

00:37:54.485 --> 00:37:55.971
He said, "To call you."

00:37:56.187 --> 00:37:59.590
I said, "That's not a safety plan.
You need to hang up and call 911."

00:38:01.699 --> 00:38:04.573
I hate having to tell him that.

00:38:06.177 --> 00:38:08.012
It feels callous to me.

00:38:08.252 --> 00:38:11.145
When you're going through
withdrawal from psychiatric drugs,

00:38:11.356 --> 00:38:14.424
the best thing is
to get back off that ledge

00:38:16.568 --> 00:38:19.938
and just say,
"Dave, just give yourself more time."

00:38:21.555 --> 00:38:25.043
"Give yourself more time,
continue to fight for it."

00:38:26.567 --> 00:38:28.855
You know?
"And someday you'll...

00:38:29.362 --> 00:38:32.695
regain a sense of normalcy
in your day-to-day life."

00:38:35.894 --> 00:38:40.301
[RUMBLING THUNDER AND FALLING RAIN]

00:38:43.060 --> 00:38:45.293
When it comes
to medication discontinuation,

00:38:45.486 --> 00:38:48.346
there's a silent epidemic
of people struggling with this.

00:38:48.647 --> 00:38:52.483
We have a cultural understanding
that illicit substances can be addictive.

00:38:52.711 --> 00:38:54.329
We understand this with

00:38:54.497 --> 00:38:57.935
nicotine and alcohol,
heroin and cocaine.

00:38:58.611 --> 00:39:02.345
But for whatever reason, we don't consider
psychiatric medications addictive.

00:39:02.601 --> 00:39:05.395
Taking that first pill,
it's not free.

00:39:05.590 --> 00:39:09.481
It comes with the potential
for physiologic dependence.

00:39:09.793 --> 00:39:11.596
People are jumping out of their skin,

00:39:11.830 --> 00:39:14.216
feeling terrific anxiety,
having all sorts of

00:39:14.384 --> 00:39:16.809
physiological symptoms
that are difficult to bear.

00:39:17.382 --> 00:39:21.510
People cannot stop this medicine
except in the slowest possible way

00:39:21.797 --> 00:39:24.818
with very gradual reductions in dose.

00:39:25.388 --> 00:39:28.408
[MUSIC]

00:39:30.174 --> 00:39:33.486
So, this is how I cut my pills.

00:39:33.765 --> 00:39:36.772
Here, I'm doing a 10% taper.

00:39:37.756 --> 00:39:40.692
So, I take the pill.
I weigh it.

00:39:43.021 --> 00:39:45.702
So a whole pill at two milligrams

00:39:45.943 --> 00:39:49.926
weighs 0.15.

00:39:50.702 --> 00:39:52.671
Now, I need 10% of that.

00:39:53.136 --> 00:39:57.325
You don't want to take off too much
because you'll waste the pills.

00:39:58.369 --> 00:40:01.545
It's almost there actually.
That's 10%.

00:40:01.971 --> 00:40:04.756
The first time I tapered,
I didn't have my scale yet.

00:40:05.670 --> 00:40:07.512
So I was just eyeballing

00:40:07.761 --> 00:40:09.529
because I was determined to get off.

00:40:10.216 --> 00:40:14.476
Your body will tell you if you're handling
the cuts, based on symptoms.

00:40:14.746 --> 00:40:18.613
It took me a while to get from 2 to 1.6.
It was 1.64.

00:40:18.813 --> 00:40:20.900
That's as far as I could go.

00:40:22.774 --> 00:40:25.031
This group has almost

00:40:25.904 --> 00:40:28.347
2,300 members.

00:40:29.152 --> 00:40:31.007
People just post stuff.

00:40:31.416 --> 00:40:33.256
"How's everyone doing today?"

00:40:33.451 --> 00:40:34.689
Let's see.

00:40:34.954 --> 00:40:37.817
"I'm in a strange window today.
Up dose for almost two days."

00:40:37.985 --> 00:40:41.527
"Up dose" is when you're at a certain dose
and the symptoms get really bad,

00:40:41.726 --> 00:40:45.901
so you go back to the original dose
where you weren't feeling so bad.

00:40:46.291 --> 00:40:49.220
Everyone has their unique stuff
running through them.

00:40:49.414 --> 00:40:50.578
No two people are alike.

00:40:51.108 --> 00:40:52.650
I had brain zap.

00:40:52.818 --> 00:40:54.494
I had tremors.

00:40:54.662 --> 00:40:56.790
I had severe night sweats.

00:40:57.008 --> 00:40:58.764
I have a symptom where it feels like

00:40:58.945 --> 00:41:01.819
things are crawling inside my body,
just moving.

00:41:02.045 --> 00:41:03.859
I came across this image
and I thought,

00:41:04.027 --> 00:41:07.404
"Wow, that's exactly how it is."

00:41:08.084 --> 00:41:09.871
I found this image also.

00:41:10.216 --> 00:41:14.072
This picture shows exactly
how it feels inside my head

00:41:14.404 --> 00:41:16.267
when I say I have

00:41:16.489 --> 00:41:20.734
these burning sensations
all over my spine and my body.

00:41:21.284 --> 00:41:23.387
The image is so truthful

00:41:23.561 --> 00:41:26.227
because I don't feel anything here.

00:41:26.436 --> 00:41:27.979
Right here is very normal.

00:41:28.147 --> 00:41:30.539
It's just here,
just everything here.

00:41:31.043 --> 00:41:32.629
That's exactly how it is.

00:41:33.518 --> 00:41:35.786
I found that support group
just by chance.

00:41:36.034 --> 00:41:38.672
I typed in "lorazepam"

00:41:39.631 --> 00:41:42.926
"Lorazepam withdrawal",
"lorazepam dangers".

00:41:43.201 --> 00:41:44.576
And I thought, "What?"

00:41:44.816 --> 00:41:47.356
After reading, I realized
I needed a support group.

00:41:48.032 --> 00:41:50.613
Nobody understands this.

00:41:50.827 --> 00:41:54.287
If you don't have support,
you will lose yourself.

00:41:55.206 --> 00:41:58.685
I've been part of these groups
since last August of last year.

00:41:59.297 --> 00:42:01.813
Since last August of last year,
we've lost

00:42:02.660 --> 00:42:05.580
three people to suicide
in my support groups.

00:42:06.675 --> 00:42:07.916
Three.

00:42:08.313 --> 00:42:10.722
We lost a 50-something-year-old woman

00:42:10.889 --> 00:42:13.603
whose doctor cold-turkeyed her
off of Klonopin.

00:42:14.178 --> 00:42:15.713
And she suffered.

00:42:16.841 --> 00:42:20.358
She has two little boys
and she walked in front of a train

00:42:20.612 --> 00:42:22.619
because she couldn't
deal with it anymore.

00:42:23.067 --> 00:42:26.270
About a month ago, we lost
a 40-something-year-old guy.

00:42:27.818 --> 00:42:30.196
He shot himself in the head.

00:42:30.477 --> 00:42:33.050
Blew his head off.

00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:37.757
We're losing people in this fight.

00:42:38.242 --> 00:42:39.950
I think about it all the time.

00:42:40.744 --> 00:42:43.038
What if my symptoms
get to the point

00:42:43.234 --> 00:42:45.347
where I can't make it?

00:42:45.946 --> 00:42:47.409
What am I going to do?

00:42:48.020 --> 00:42:51.110
[MUSIC]

00:43:01.853 --> 00:43:03.863
I finally got off all the drugs.

00:43:04.436 --> 00:43:07.823
All the intrusive and
suicidal thoughts stopped.

00:43:08.370 --> 00:43:11.249
I had to see my psychiatrist
for the last time on Friday.

00:43:12.122 --> 00:43:14.888
And there was a sense of closure for me.

00:43:16.053 --> 00:43:18.499
Two months left
before I graduate with my bachelor's

00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.159
and then the grad program
starts in the fall

00:43:21.429 --> 00:43:23.209
and I'll be on my way.

00:43:24.749 --> 00:43:26.691
We're pretty close to the entrance.

00:43:27.624 --> 00:43:30.624
[MUSIC]

00:43:35.232 --> 00:43:36.519
-Hi. I'm Sierra.
-I'm Angie.

00:43:36.687 --> 00:43:38.950
-I'm Dr. Vieten's daughter.
-Cool. Awesome.

00:43:39.118 --> 00:43:41.360
-You'll be in the house.
-Which one's the house?

00:43:41.548 --> 00:43:43.450
-The one with the porch.
-Okay, perfect.

00:43:50.647 --> 00:43:51.756
Cool!

00:43:53.410 --> 00:43:54.631
That's pretty cool.

00:43:56.273 --> 00:43:58.586
I haven't seen that name
in a long time.

00:44:02.786 --> 00:44:05.032
-Welcome. How are you?
-Hi. Nice to see you.

00:44:05.319 --> 00:44:07.834
[CROSSTALK]

00:44:08.504 --> 00:44:10.889
-It's good to see you.
-Hello. How are you?

00:44:11.136 --> 00:44:13.196
Come on in.
Just put your gear there.

00:44:13.411 --> 00:44:14.779
No rain.
We should be good.

00:44:26.292 --> 00:44:29.708
Inevitably, the warfighters
that I work with are drugged.

00:44:31.469 --> 00:44:33.982
And they all come back impacted.

00:44:34.163 --> 00:44:36.765
The trauma is pretty much
across the board.

00:44:37.162 --> 00:44:39.135
So, I'm going to give you

00:44:41.179 --> 00:44:43.848
Dr. Vieten's version
of the suicide lecture.

00:44:44.215 --> 00:44:45.994
That black box warning

00:44:46.302 --> 00:44:48.910
that is on your psychiatric medications,

00:44:49.161 --> 00:44:52.221
the Prozac, the Zoloft, the Abilify.

00:44:52.427 --> 00:44:55.153
That's not on there to lower
the drug company's liability.

00:44:55.399 --> 00:44:59.721
It's on there because
the overwhelming scientific evidence

00:45:00.457 --> 00:45:02.104
indicates that they are

00:45:02.330 --> 00:45:05.290
a danger and that they cause people
to commit suicide.

00:45:05.523 --> 00:45:08.323
They cause people to do things
that are disinhibited,

00:45:08.720 --> 00:45:12.369
engage in behaviors that they would
never engage in at other times.

00:45:12.924 --> 00:45:15.310
-Can I say something about suicide?
-Yes.

00:45:15.646 --> 00:45:19.095
I've never been suicidal in my entire life
except for medication.

00:45:19.330 --> 00:45:23.023
The first time was Klonopin,
then Lyrica and this time was Ativan.

00:45:23.982 --> 00:45:25.415
There's like a space in there.

00:45:25.695 --> 00:45:27.955
"Okay, I'm having suicidal thoughts."

00:45:28.300 --> 00:45:31.369
"That's alright
but I'm not going to do it."

00:45:31.604 --> 00:45:33.360
But then that space disappears.

00:45:33.604 --> 00:45:35.742
It's like something else
takes over your body

00:45:35.915 --> 00:45:38.487
because of those drugs
and you just do it.

00:45:38.662 --> 00:45:41.762
If you struggle with those thoughts,
you have to talk to somebody.

00:45:41.994 --> 00:45:44.647
You can't think,
"I'm better than this. I'm strong."

00:45:44.874 --> 00:45:49.656
You have no idea how those drugs can
turn on you in and you'll die from it.

00:45:49.853 --> 00:45:53.100
I don't know if we all got the same briefs
but when we went overseas,

00:45:53.363 --> 00:45:55.593
ours said,
"Don't get captured."

00:45:55.899 --> 00:45:58.106
"If you get captured,
they'll cut your head off

00:45:58.298 --> 00:46:00.350
on actual television
and show your parents."

00:46:00.692 --> 00:46:03.198
Without saying it,
they tell you,

00:46:03.438 --> 00:46:05.031
"Save a bullet for yourself."

00:46:06.481 --> 00:46:09.149
When you cross that line
and actually believe that,

00:46:09.409 --> 00:46:12.849
It's really hard to come back over,
it's been hard for me.

00:46:13.335 --> 00:46:17.339
So, it's Trazodone for sleep,
Lamotrigine for a mood stabilizer.

00:46:18.254 --> 00:46:19.852
Risperidone's an antipsychotic.

00:46:20.032 --> 00:46:22.559
Buspar's an anti-anxiety,
Haldol's an antipsychotic.

00:46:22.826 --> 00:46:26.607
And I'm taking a benzo with it
to keep from getting tics.

00:46:26.869 --> 00:46:29.805
Valium, the Invega injection
that I get once a month,

00:46:30.059 --> 00:46:33.913
and clonazepam three times a day
and then as needed.

00:46:34.209 --> 00:46:36.114
Is that two milligrams
three times a day?

00:46:36.324 --> 00:46:38.334
-Yes.
-That's an extremely a high dose.

00:46:38.627 --> 00:46:40.896
-This is all from the same doctor?
-Yes.

00:46:41.483 --> 00:46:42.928
She's on two benzos,

00:46:43.999 --> 00:46:46.581
in addition to three antipsychotics
and an injection.

00:46:46.956 --> 00:46:49.166
I should be a happy...

00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:52.293
-That's...
-a happy-go-lucky zombie.

00:46:53.468 --> 00:46:55.982
That's amazing that
your respiratory system is...

00:46:56.168 --> 00:46:58.013
-Still working?
-Functioning, yeah.

00:46:58.467 --> 00:47:01.801
What's scaring me is once I'm off
this medicine, what am I going to do?

00:47:02.866 --> 00:47:06.953
For the better part of 15 years,
I've been on medicine,

00:47:07.662 --> 00:47:09.583
And no one's told me anything different.

00:47:09.759 --> 00:47:13.003
What I'm hearing here this week,
it's almost a brand new life for me.

00:47:13.187 --> 00:47:16.240
The main thing for me is hearing
other veterans are going through

00:47:16.420 --> 00:47:17.750
what I'm going through.

00:47:17.949 --> 00:47:20.207
-Like which things are they saying?
-Number one:

00:47:20.375 --> 00:47:23.042
Why do I want to kill myself?
I can't figure this out.

00:47:23.210 --> 00:47:24.457
I have two beautiful kids.

00:47:25.304 --> 00:47:27.617
Why do I want to kill myself?
It's not logical.

00:47:27.785 --> 00:47:29.887
-Were you ever suicidal before the meds?
-No.

00:47:30.155 --> 00:47:31.961
It's a long journey
getting off them

00:47:32.247 --> 00:47:35.884
and you will experience
some very, very unpleasant symptoms.

00:47:36.262 --> 00:47:41.442
One of them for me was
extreme levels of irritability.

00:47:41.803 --> 00:47:45.028
It destroyed my relationship
with my wife and we separated.

00:47:46.736 --> 00:47:48.737
[MUSIC]

00:47:52.849 --> 00:47:55.968
How did I get from climbing
my way up this mountain

00:47:56.285 --> 00:47:59.462
to locked in a psych ward
banging my head against the wall.

00:47:59.991 --> 00:48:01.298
How did I get there?

00:48:01.795 --> 00:48:03.289
I feel I was asking for help.

00:48:03.543 --> 00:48:05.607
-"Hi, my soldier just got hit."
-Exactly.

00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:07.323
-"How do I handle that?"
-Yes.

00:48:07.502 --> 00:48:09.112
-And they gave me drugs.
-Yes.

00:48:09.338 --> 00:48:10.931
I just needed you to tell me,

00:48:11.298 --> 00:48:12.865
"Thank God he's alive."

00:48:13.069 --> 00:48:15.023
Or, "You'll need time to grieve."

00:48:15.237 --> 00:48:17.631
Or, "You'll feel guilty
because you weren't there."

00:48:17.812 --> 00:48:19.106
-Something like that.
-Sure.

00:48:19.328 --> 00:48:22.381
I got, "Don't worry about your feelings,
here's pills."

00:48:22.617 --> 00:48:24.297
Had I just taken
a break from school

00:48:24.503 --> 00:48:27.009
-and recalibrated
-Life would've been very different.

00:48:27.268 --> 00:48:29.972
I'd have been fine,
my life would've continued on.

00:48:30.298 --> 00:48:32.835
I look back, I've tried everything:
Effexor, Cymbalta.

00:48:33.041 --> 00:48:35.030
-I've been through all of them.
-The list.

00:48:35.224 --> 00:48:37.200
The list of them and it's...

00:48:37.434 --> 00:48:40.719
It's just this archaic trial and error

00:48:40.936 --> 00:48:43.247
that only an alchemist,

00:48:43.479 --> 00:48:47.167
somebody who thinks they can make
gold out of nothing, would attempt.

00:48:47.643 --> 00:48:50.532
All those years, I would say,

00:48:50.965 --> 00:48:53.604
"I don't have relationships or friends,
I don't go out."

00:48:53.814 --> 00:48:55.316
"I don't care about anything."

00:48:55.538 --> 00:48:57.491
And they'd say it was me!

00:48:59.909 --> 00:49:02.389
So now I know
it was not me!

00:49:04.268 --> 00:49:06.055
It was their fucking drugs!

00:49:07.235 --> 00:49:09.882
The "F-Bomb Aficionado"

00:49:10.715 --> 00:49:13.501
is presented to Sergeant Angie Peacock

00:49:13.827 --> 00:49:16.867
[APPLAUSE]

00:49:17.129 --> 00:49:20.501
for repetitive use of the F-Bomb
in keeping with the highest traditions

00:49:20.701 --> 00:49:23.544
of the Marine Corps in
the United States Naval Service!

00:49:23.923 --> 00:49:26.116
[LAUGHTER]

00:49:26.367 --> 00:49:28.061
Can you give us
any words of wisdom?

00:49:28.255 --> 00:49:29.397
Fuck yeah!

00:49:29.747 --> 00:49:32.073
[LAUGHTER]

00:49:33.014 --> 00:49:35.784
The gorilla in the room is
the pharmaceutical industry.

00:49:36.905 --> 00:49:40.452
Drug companies spend something like
$80 billion a year

00:49:41.085 --> 00:49:43.049
on marketing and lobbying.

00:49:43.272 --> 00:49:45.395
They spend much, much less on research.

00:49:45.601 --> 00:49:49.776
Most of their research is for marketing,
not developing new products.

00:49:50.145 --> 00:49:54.253
Let's go back to the start
of this disease model in the 1980s.

00:49:54.670 --> 00:49:57.147
The first drug that
was tested in this new era

00:49:57.366 --> 00:50:00.151
was Xanax, alprazolam,
for panic disorder.

00:50:00.357 --> 00:50:02.097
Here was the study they conducted.

00:50:02.350 --> 00:50:06.424
They compared Xanax to a placebo group
and the primary outcome measure was

00:50:06.617 --> 00:50:10.244
the average number
of weekly panic attacks.

00:50:10.493 --> 00:50:12.971
After four weeks,
Xanax was doing better.

00:50:13.325 --> 00:50:14.957
Fewer panic attacks.

00:50:15.223 --> 00:50:18.517
At eight weeks, the Xanax patients
were doing no better than placebo.

00:50:18.728 --> 00:50:21.187
And then, at the end of 14 weeks,

00:50:21.415 --> 00:50:24.608
the Xanax patients were doing worse
than they were at the beginning,

00:50:24.881 --> 00:50:28.551
and much, much worse than
the placebo patients.

00:50:28.771 --> 00:50:30.913
The trial told of harm done.

00:50:31.173 --> 00:50:32.936
It told of people who'd get addicted.

00:50:33.161 --> 00:50:35.562
When they came off, they'd have
withdrawal symptoms

00:50:35.749 --> 00:50:37.575
and some would be unable to get off.

00:50:37.948 --> 00:50:40.335
That's what the study showed.
What did they report?

00:50:41.357 --> 00:50:44.957
They didn't report the 8-week results,
they focused on the 4-week results

00:50:45.197 --> 00:50:47.065
because that was the story
that told of

00:50:47.292 --> 00:50:49.760
an effective new treatment
for panic disorder.

00:50:49.952 --> 00:50:52.745
They completely hid
the 14-week results.

00:50:53.356 --> 00:50:56.443
Xanax quickly became one
of the bestselling drugs in the country.

00:50:56.698 --> 00:50:58.567
It is still prescribed left and right.

00:50:59.034 --> 00:51:01.090
And what did we have
in the early '80s?

00:51:01.258 --> 00:51:03.710
A story of science
that told of harm done.

00:51:04.079 --> 00:51:05.747
The longer you take a study out,

00:51:05.954 --> 00:51:09.118
the more likely you are to see people
not doing well on that drug

00:51:09.403 --> 00:51:11.912
or developing side effects from that drug.

00:51:12.141 --> 00:51:15.719
So, the pharmaceutical industry
doesn't favor long-term studies

00:51:15.959 --> 00:51:18.646
for monetary reasons
and for outcome reasons.

00:51:18.900 --> 00:51:23.047
They don't want to show that
their drug actually doesn't do well.

00:51:23.391 --> 00:51:25.978
There's as much marketing

00:51:26.591 --> 00:51:30.166
in the tests that are devised
to measure the outcomes,

00:51:30.492 --> 00:51:33.981
in the investigators that are hired
to conduct the study.

00:51:34.263 --> 00:51:36.599
All of that stuff is marketing.

00:51:36.812 --> 00:51:40.599
But it's presented and manufactured
and published as science.

00:51:40.883 --> 00:51:43.819
So, here's how it's done
and how it was done.

00:51:44.374 --> 00:51:47.201
They funneled loads of money
to so-called "thought leaders".

00:51:47.502 --> 00:51:51.207
Academic psychiatrists at
prestigious American universities,

00:51:51.534 --> 00:51:53.895
Harvard, Stanford, Johns Hopkins.

00:51:54.102 --> 00:51:58.094
Those academic psychiatrists began working
for the drug companies as consultants

00:51:58.262 --> 00:52:01.110
serving as their speakers, advisers, etc.

00:52:01.411 --> 00:52:03.913
You'd start with the clinical study
of the drug.

00:52:04.105 --> 00:52:06.919
But who's designing the study?
The pharmaceutical companies.

00:52:07.114 --> 00:52:09.551
They know how to design it
so their drug looks good.

00:52:09.768 --> 00:52:11.089
That's step one.

00:52:11.300 --> 00:52:12.717
Who then analyzes the data?

00:52:12.975 --> 00:52:14.677
Well, their own people do it.

00:52:14.890 --> 00:52:17.025
It's done by
the drug companies themselves.

00:52:17.520 --> 00:52:19.493
Third then, who writes the papers?

00:52:19.702 --> 00:52:21.574
It's actually ghostwriters

00:52:21.742 --> 00:52:24.134
hired by the drug companies
to write up the study.

00:52:25.094 --> 00:52:27.312
They'd now present this study
to the people

00:52:27.549 --> 00:52:30.519
that they want to be
the big names of the study.

00:52:30.792 --> 00:52:34.537
And those "thought leaders" basically
sign off on the ghostwritten papers

00:52:34.830 --> 00:52:38.333
and they become the "authors"
of the published paper.

00:52:38.954 --> 00:52:41.145
The former editors
of the medical journals like

00:52:41.336 --> 00:52:43.485
JAMA and the New England
Journal of Medicine

00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:45.521
and the British Medical Journal,

00:52:45.761 --> 00:52:49.370
they've all said, "Basically, we became
vehicles for story laundering."

00:52:49.986 --> 00:52:53.055
It was a corrupted creation
of an evidence base.

00:52:55.951 --> 00:52:59.188
Now, I'm a practicing doctor
in some town.

00:52:59.601 --> 00:53:01.135
What am I going to believe?

00:53:01.303 --> 00:53:03.299
I'm going to believe

00:53:03.532 --> 00:53:07.342
Mr. Dr. Bigwig at Harvard University
that this is the best science.

00:53:07.883 --> 00:53:11.691
So my obligation is to use
the very drug they say is so great.

00:53:12.181 --> 00:53:15.284
For example, Prozac.
Prozac didn't really work in the trials.

00:53:15.483 --> 00:53:17.509
Prozac had all sorts
of adverse effects.

00:53:17.812 --> 00:53:21.141
And those of us old enough to remember
when Prozac came to market,

00:53:21.367 --> 00:53:24.787
the drug itself was
on the cover of magazines.

00:53:25.221 --> 00:53:28.355
"Our powers enable us to give you
whatever personality you want."

00:53:28.638 --> 00:53:30.934
"That's how great
our knowledge is advancing."

00:53:31.185 --> 00:53:32.741
That was the story told.

00:53:33.170 --> 00:53:34.570
What did science tell us?

00:53:34.797 --> 00:53:36.716
Do you know what they found
in the 1970s?

00:53:36.884 --> 00:53:37.956
Very first studies.

00:53:38.159 --> 00:53:39.785
Done in Germany.
What did they see?

00:53:39.987 --> 00:53:41.439
All sorts of psychotic events,

00:53:41.654 --> 00:53:43.301
worsening of depression,

00:53:43.521 --> 00:53:45.284
homicidal and suicidal impulses,

00:53:45.473 --> 00:53:47.427
so much that the German authorities said,

00:53:47.664 --> 00:53:50.537
"This is a dangerous drug.
We're not going to approve it."

00:53:50.752 --> 00:53:54.556
And now go read the studies
that were reported by the Americans.

00:53:55.437 --> 00:53:58.569
The psychosis is gone.
The homicidal problems are gone.

00:53:59.060 --> 00:54:01.533
Imagine you're a mother,
and I know mothers

00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:04.100
who said to their kid
who got depressed

00:54:04.326 --> 00:54:07.408
over breaking up with a girl
or something like that,

00:54:07.696 --> 00:54:10.819
"The doctor says Prozac doesn't increase
suicide risk."

00:54:11.046 --> 00:54:14.146
Then a week later, that kid hangs himself.
That's in a real case.

00:54:15.469 --> 00:54:18.089
Can you think of
any worse corruption than that?

00:54:18.460 --> 00:54:20.662
It has been shown
that half of the deaths

00:54:20.883 --> 00:54:24.486
that occur in psychiatric drug trials
are never published.

00:54:24.847 --> 00:54:26.193
They disappear.

00:54:26.633 --> 00:54:28.595
You have an expression in America.

00:54:28.931 --> 00:54:31.166
"Torture your data
until they confess."

00:54:31.887 --> 00:54:33.658
This happens all the time.

00:54:33.950 --> 00:54:36.671
The difference between
an honest data analysis

00:54:37.352 --> 00:54:39.523
and one you have manipulated

00:54:39.749 --> 00:54:42.171
can be worth billions
on the world market.

00:54:42.373 --> 00:54:44.074
What do you think they'll do?

00:54:45.121 --> 00:54:48.254
[MUSIC]

00:55:15.342 --> 00:55:18.384
[BACKGROUND CONVERSATION]

00:55:26.274 --> 00:55:28.394
I'm still nowhere near
the person I was.

00:55:28.597 --> 00:55:30.300
But as I explain it to my wife,

00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:31.807
I know I love her.

00:55:32.076 --> 00:55:36.030
I know I can recall
the feelings and the sensations

00:55:36.573 --> 00:55:39.078
of when we met, we dated,
and we got married.

00:55:40.588 --> 00:55:41.794
But I don't feel love.

00:55:41.996 --> 00:55:43.881
I don't feel love for her
or for my dog.

00:55:44.090 --> 00:55:45.615
I don't feel love or connection.

00:55:45.847 --> 00:55:46.996
It's almost--

00:55:47.252 --> 00:55:48.875
I don't feel

00:55:50.533 --> 00:55:54.859
for other people's concerns
or feelings or emotions.

00:55:55.743 --> 00:55:58.436
I think that's multifaceted
and partly due to

00:55:58.650 --> 00:56:01.966
the drugs and severe trauma
of going through the experience.

00:56:03.373 --> 00:56:04.613
I don't know.

00:56:05.573 --> 00:56:08.307
My family hasn't
necessarily understood why

00:56:09.165 --> 00:56:12.881
I've chosen to come back and stay
in an abusive relationship.

00:56:13.328 --> 00:56:15.305
Why do they define it as abusive?

00:56:15.578 --> 00:56:17.560
I mean, I've said some hurtful things.

00:56:17.885 --> 00:56:22.454
Yes, when you were in
the absolute depths of it,

00:56:22.637 --> 00:56:25.420
you were abusive.

00:56:25.781 --> 00:56:27.120
In what way?

00:56:28.167 --> 00:56:30.133
-Verbally abusive?
-Yes.

00:56:30.373 --> 00:56:33.993
-Okay. Not physically abusive.
-Not physically, no, but verbally abusive.

00:56:34.179 --> 00:56:36.239
I can recall telling you
I needed time.

00:56:36.665 --> 00:56:38.571
I was so mad at you!

00:56:38.794 --> 00:56:40.161
Why were you so mad?

00:56:40.354 --> 00:56:42.824
Well, because we had given it time

00:56:43.299 --> 00:56:45.802
and it wasn't getting
really any better.

00:56:46.120 --> 00:56:48.833
And I didn't feel like

00:56:49.081 --> 00:56:52.854
that treatment plan
was necessarily working.

00:56:53.816 --> 00:56:56.185
And then you said
some pretty horrible things

00:56:56.505 --> 00:56:59.508
and it happened so quickly
after we got married.

00:56:59.735 --> 00:57:02.304
I felt like it was like
a bait-and-switch deal.

00:57:02.514 --> 00:57:05.764
What do you think about trying
to get off Vyvanse this summer?

00:57:06.163 --> 00:57:07.912
I would like to try.

00:57:08.152 --> 00:57:10.578
-Yeah?
-I think it's going to be hard.

00:57:10.864 --> 00:57:13.364
Honestly, what scares me the most
is I haven't heard,

00:57:13.602 --> 00:57:15.670
"I'm here to support you
through this"

00:57:16.454 --> 00:57:17.485
Hmm

00:57:17.713 --> 00:57:20.082
"regardless of what happens."

00:57:20.804 --> 00:57:21.931
And that's--

00:57:23.525 --> 00:57:24.963
-Are you listening?
-I am.

00:57:25.131 --> 00:57:27.244
Okay.
It doesn't feel like it.

00:57:27.437 --> 00:57:29.290
Hmm.
I'm listening.

00:57:29.624 --> 00:57:32.511
I have been through hell with you

00:57:32.762 --> 00:57:36.056
and have held you while you banged
your head against the wall.

00:57:36.599 --> 00:57:41.037
And this is my fear coming from the things
you said when you were in your depths.

00:57:41.237 --> 00:57:42.718
That you're going to say,

00:57:42.998 --> 00:57:46.080
"Maybe this isn't the right
relationship for us."

00:57:46.402 --> 00:57:47.759
Yeah. I hear you.

00:57:49.031 --> 00:57:51.238
I have put so much into it.

00:57:54.329 --> 00:57:55.446
Yeah.

00:57:59.961 --> 00:58:03.217
[MUSIC]

00:58:07.102 --> 00:58:10.350
[MUSIC]

00:58:15.144 --> 00:58:19.145
There really is no research on
the long-term impact of stimulant use,

00:58:19.447 --> 00:58:21.974
but the longer you're on them,
the higher the dose,

00:58:22.236 --> 00:58:25.121
the more risks that you incur over time

00:58:25.334 --> 00:58:27.874
and the less actual benefit
you get from that drug.

00:58:28.931 --> 00:58:30.638
-Hello.
-Hi, how are you?

00:58:30.826 --> 00:58:32.226
-Good.
-Good.

00:58:32.446 --> 00:58:33.580
So...

00:58:33.782 --> 00:58:35.458
How's your focus been doing?

00:58:35.626 --> 00:58:37.004
Not as hot as I'd like it.

00:58:40.064 --> 00:58:44.152
I kind of feel like I've reached
the tolerance.

00:58:44.412 --> 00:58:48.158
How long overall has it been
that you've been on stimulants in total?

00:58:48.371 --> 00:58:50.252
Fifteen years, at least.

00:58:50.713 --> 00:58:53.473
Your dosage is as high
as I've ever seen for myself.

00:58:53.809 --> 00:58:55.418
But if it's not great,

00:58:56.155 --> 00:58:57.958
then normally we'd try Adderall.

00:58:58.246 --> 00:59:00.561
OK, and I'm actually interested in

00:59:01.235 --> 00:59:02.729
decreasing and getting off.

00:59:02.917 --> 00:59:04.229
Right.
Yeah.

00:59:04.422 --> 00:59:06.022
You always can.

00:59:06.281 --> 00:59:08.767
If I were you, myself,
I wouldn't just abruptly stop.

00:59:08.967 --> 00:59:11.120
No, I'm not interested in
abruptly stopping.

00:59:11.288 --> 00:59:13.707
My husband did that
and it was not pretty.

00:59:13.923 --> 00:59:16.032
You could actually open the capsule

00:59:16.226 --> 00:59:19.871
and gradually, day after day,
just take out a little bit more.

00:59:20.118 --> 00:59:21.481
Okay. At what rate?

00:59:21.718 --> 00:59:22.870
You could kind of judge.

00:59:23.098 --> 00:59:28.358
You could maybe drop a third
of the amount from one of them,

00:59:28.699 --> 00:59:32.461
wait for a few days,
take a third out of the other one.

00:59:32.665 --> 00:59:33.821
Just kind of wean off.

00:59:33.999 --> 00:59:35.141
If, however, you said,

00:59:35.414 --> 00:59:37.516
"Definitely it's better
to be on the medicine

00:59:37.709 --> 00:59:39.222
but it's still not great",

00:59:39.455 --> 00:59:41.655
then I would recommend trying Adderall

00:59:41.823 --> 00:59:44.289
because it's got
a little bit of a higher potency.

00:59:44.767 --> 00:59:46.300
Yeah.
Well, thank you.

00:59:46.468 --> 00:59:48.352
-I appreciate your time.
-Anything else?

00:59:48.520 --> 00:59:49.778
-I think that's it.
-Super.

00:59:49.958 --> 00:59:51.424
-Thanks a lot.
-You're welcome.

00:59:51.599 --> 00:59:52.831
-I appreciate it.

00:59:53.591 --> 00:59:54.739
I'm doing it for Dave.

00:59:55.090 --> 00:59:57.405
If he wasn't in the picture,

00:59:57.598 --> 01:00:00.459
I probably wouldn't be doing this.

01:00:01.137 --> 01:00:02.872
[PHONE RINGING]

01:00:03.159 --> 01:00:04.419
Oh, look, there's Dave!

01:00:08.577 --> 01:00:09.664
Hi, honey!

01:00:10.525 --> 01:00:12.347
-How did it go?
-It went good.

01:00:12.515 --> 01:00:13.572
OK.

01:00:13.845 --> 01:00:16.485
He recommended if the Vyvanse
isn't meeting what I need,

01:00:16.745 --> 01:00:18.447
that I should move to Adderall.

01:00:19.028 --> 01:00:21.285
-Oh, of course.
-[LAUGHING]

01:00:21.495 --> 01:00:23.420
So I think that's what I'm going to do.

01:00:25.526 --> 01:00:27.518
-You're joking, right?
-[LAUGHING]

01:00:27.903 --> 01:00:29.891
Yes, I am!

01:00:39.434 --> 01:00:40.614
[CLOSING DOOR]

01:00:42.597 --> 01:00:43.966
Hi!

01:00:44.409 --> 01:00:45.600
Hi!

01:00:46.815 --> 01:00:50.347
I'm going to take the medicine
out of the capsule.

01:00:50.646 --> 01:00:54.755
60-mg capsule,
I'll put 6 ounces of water in

01:00:55.202 --> 01:00:56.850
and dissolve it in that,

01:00:57.081 --> 01:00:59.623
and then drink, I guess, 5 ounces.

01:01:00.043 --> 01:01:02.263
[STIRRING]

01:01:08.044 --> 01:01:09.053
That's it.

01:01:09.557 --> 01:01:11.927
All done!
Good boy.

01:01:13.467 --> 01:01:14.694
Well, I guess it's the

01:01:15.853 --> 01:01:18.260
start of a journey
and see what happens.

01:01:21.510 --> 01:01:23.364
[MUSIC]

01:01:23.553 --> 01:01:24.687
Oh, Brooklyn!

01:01:28.096 --> 01:01:29.769
We're going to see the doctor.

01:01:30.009 --> 01:01:32.363
That doctor that put me
on these drugs.

01:01:32.615 --> 01:01:34.577
There's a hidden camera right here,

01:01:35.263 --> 01:01:37.766
and I've got some wires
underneath all this.

01:01:38.748 --> 01:01:40.602
Well, this is it.

01:01:40.989 --> 01:01:43.155
There's the office right there.

01:01:44.686 --> 01:01:46.158
What do you know about benzos?

01:01:51.014 --> 01:01:52.173
They can't come off!

01:02:09.324 --> 01:02:12.451
Why do you think it's so hard
to get people off benzos?

01:02:18.916 --> 01:02:21.456
Yeah, but do you know
the kind of pain and discomfort?

01:02:28.271 --> 01:02:30.517
Most people, when they say,

01:02:30.757 --> 01:02:32.291
"I can't get off benzos"

01:02:32.520 --> 01:02:34.540
I think most people mean,

01:02:34.713 --> 01:02:36.713
"I didn't know it would be
this difficult."

01:02:36.906 --> 01:02:39.192
They thought it would
probably be easier to stop.

01:02:42.952 --> 01:02:44.153
You didn't tell me that!

01:02:44.666 --> 01:02:47.903
You said,
"You can stop any time you want."

01:02:48.145 --> 01:02:49.726
"There'll be no problem to stop."

01:02:50.524 --> 01:02:52.916
Yes, but that's not
the impression you gave.

01:02:53.127 --> 01:02:55.137
I didn't know I'd have
withdrawal symptoms!

01:02:55.369 --> 01:02:56.557
If you had told me,

01:02:56.820 --> 01:02:59.770
"By the way, this drug can give you
withdrawal symptoms."

01:03:00.009 --> 01:03:02.798
"So, do you still want this drug?"

01:03:03.598 --> 01:03:06.279
Then I would've made
my own decision.

01:03:06.575 --> 01:03:09.378
I based my decision
in taking this drug

01:03:10.279 --> 01:03:13.767
on you,
because of the trust I had in you.

01:03:14.022 --> 01:03:16.326
If I was given the clear picture

01:03:16.553 --> 01:03:19.087
as to what the profile of this drug was,

01:03:19.280 --> 01:03:22.661
I would've said,
"No freaking way."

01:03:22.895 --> 01:03:24.282
He's following the script!

01:03:24.462 --> 01:03:26.141
He said,
"I went to medical school."

01:03:26.374 --> 01:03:29.281
"And I'm a board-certified psychiatrist."

01:03:29.525 --> 01:03:33.006
"And I follow everything they say
to diagnose people."

01:03:33.561 --> 01:03:36.330
Basically, he doesn't believe
he's doing anything wrong.

01:03:37.231 --> 01:03:39.396
I think informed consent is
so important here

01:03:39.595 --> 01:03:41.516
because the typical encounter look like

01:03:41.695 --> 01:03:44.282
someone going in to
their primary care doctor's office

01:03:44.537 --> 01:03:46.917
and reporting symptoms of depression.

01:03:47.107 --> 01:03:50.678
And they might walk out of there
with a prescription for an antidepressant

01:03:50.919 --> 01:03:53.838
after maybe an eight-minute conversation.

01:03:54.182 --> 01:03:58.016
That's barely enough time
to cover potential side effects,

01:03:58.232 --> 01:04:02.068
let alone the true story
around efficacy

01:04:02.335 --> 01:04:06.305
or alternatives to antidepressants.

01:04:06.635 --> 01:04:08.590
To me, when I'm talking about

01:04:08.764 --> 01:04:11.691
this choice of how should we manage
your depression,

01:04:11.987 --> 01:04:15.457
the least I can do
is let someone know,

01:04:15.804 --> 01:04:17.830
"This is a valid option,

01:04:18.010 --> 01:04:21.411
but you deserve to know
what you might be getting yourself into."

01:04:21.950 --> 01:04:24.052
[MUSIC]

01:04:35.271 --> 01:04:36.439
Hi.

01:04:37.486 --> 01:04:39.819
Kristian Rasmussen.
That's just concerning to me.

01:04:40.088 --> 01:04:43.195
It seems like a lot of medication
if your only question was,

01:04:43.435 --> 01:04:45.369
"Do you have something
to help me sleep?"

01:04:45.606 --> 01:04:48.279
Ultimately, you did stop taking
these medications, right?

01:04:48.501 --> 01:04:49.574
Yeah.

01:04:49.812 --> 01:04:52.335
Did you experience
any withdrawal symptoms?

01:04:52.535 --> 01:04:55.162
I had about 10,000
withdrawal symptoms.

01:04:55.411 --> 01:04:57.356
Okay, so 10,000 is a lot!

01:04:57.524 --> 01:04:59.918
-I had a lot of them!
-It seems like a lot to me!

01:05:00.209 --> 01:05:03.297
-I had a myriad of withdrawal symptoms.
-Let's talk about those.

01:05:03.517 --> 01:05:04.703
No one said,

01:05:04.871 --> 01:05:07.788
"Here are the risks associated
with stopping this medication."

01:05:07.996 --> 01:05:09.570
No, I thought it was a safe drug.

01:05:09.738 --> 01:05:12.564
When I found out it wasn't a safe drug,
I almost blew a lid.

01:05:12.832 --> 01:05:13.977
Right.

01:05:14.543 --> 01:05:17.592
There have been thousands,
if not tens of thousands,

01:05:17.839 --> 01:05:20.812
of lawsuits against various manufacturers.

01:05:21.090 --> 01:05:24.557
And these drug companies,
despite the lawsuits,

01:05:24.794 --> 01:05:27.538
they've been investigated
by various attorneys general.

01:05:27.743 --> 01:05:30.718
They've paid fines
to various regulatory bodies.

01:05:31.013 --> 01:05:33.768
They continued to promote their drugs

01:05:34.050 --> 01:05:37.529
and sell as much of the drug
as they possibly could

01:05:37.809 --> 01:05:40.509
before the patent expired.

01:05:40.709 --> 01:05:41.912
And then it goes generic.

01:05:42.184 --> 01:05:44.526
That's a problem because
we cannot sue

01:05:44.772 --> 01:05:47.192
any manufacturer of a generic drug,

01:05:47.444 --> 01:05:48.837
regardless of the risks.

01:05:49.232 --> 01:05:51.100
And even worse than that...

01:05:51.399 --> 01:05:55.074
Let's say there's a responsible CEO
of a generic manufacturer.

01:05:55.604 --> 01:05:59.322
He said, "I'd really like to put
a warning on this medication,

01:05:59.548 --> 01:06:03.148
whatever, Medication X,
because I really believe,

01:06:03.452 --> 01:06:07.215
based on the information I've seen,
that it's associated with a risk of...",

01:06:07.788 --> 01:06:10.046
let's call it suicide in your case.

01:06:10.811 --> 01:06:13.284
He's not even allowed
to change the drug label

01:06:13.491 --> 01:06:16.254
-for the drug he manufactures.
-Really?

01:06:16.445 --> 01:06:18.113
Congress says so,
it's a big issue.

01:06:19.054 --> 01:06:20.781
Unfortunately, what we see is this:

01:06:21.010 --> 01:06:23.579
I'm not sure we'll be able
to make a recovery for you.

01:06:23.778 --> 01:06:25.728
In fact, my suspicion is no.

01:06:26.001 --> 01:06:28.587
-If it's generic now and I think it is--
-It is now.

01:06:28.781 --> 01:06:30.641
What I'm telling you is, unfortunately,

01:06:30.859 --> 01:06:32.664
you can't hold them accountable.

01:06:32.832 --> 01:06:34.547
-Who do we hold accountable?
-Nobody.

01:06:34.734 --> 01:06:36.734
We can't hold anyone
accountable right now.

01:06:36.965 --> 01:06:38.889
-People die, your lives are damaged
-Yes.

01:06:39.102 --> 01:06:42.636
-and that's it? That's just awful.
-It is awful.

01:06:43.792 --> 01:06:46.794
[MUSIC]

01:06:56.617 --> 01:07:00.014
We go into this field because
we want to help people,

01:07:00.220 --> 01:07:03.477
but it's very difficult
to know where to turn

01:07:03.836 --> 01:07:07.910
for unbiased evidence
on these issues.

01:07:08.122 --> 01:07:11.568
The pharmaceutical industry
has tremendous influence

01:07:11.882 --> 01:07:14.468
over what doctors learn,
how they learn it.

01:07:14.742 --> 01:07:18.977
So general lack of knowledge about
the dangers of these drugs

01:07:19.308 --> 01:07:23.860
is one of the main reasons
that doctors continue to prescribe

01:07:24.211 --> 01:07:27.604
even when they're inadvertently
causing their patients harm.

01:07:27.816 --> 01:07:32.744
I said, "You know, right before she went
on medication, she was just fine.

01:07:32.982 --> 01:07:36.619
She was a little depressed,
but she was not having psychotic episodes.

01:07:36.831 --> 01:07:39.659
She was not having body tics.
She was not hallucinating.

01:07:40.175 --> 01:07:43.645
Do you think the medication
is actually the cause of this?"

01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:48.176
It was as if I was asking
the most irrelevant question in the world.

01:07:48.377 --> 01:07:49.945
I never got a real response.

01:07:50.113 --> 01:07:52.067
It was just not worthy
of their attention.

01:07:52.380 --> 01:07:54.890
The more we talked about
how we knew our daughter,

01:07:55.224 --> 01:07:57.111
"This is who Rebecka is,
we know her."

01:07:57.310 --> 01:08:00.104
"We know this medication has turned her
into someone else."

01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:02.269
We said, you know,

01:08:02.502 --> 01:08:05.342
"We don't think she should be
on medication and here's why."

01:08:05.529 --> 01:08:07.562
And we read off the list of symptoms.

01:08:07.769 --> 01:08:11.457
He basically said,
"I think this is a really bad decision."

01:08:11.625 --> 01:08:13.191
"It's a huge mistake."

01:08:13.421 --> 01:08:15.854
It was a reminder of a year

01:08:16.162 --> 01:08:19.275
in which, by and large,
whenever we went down this path of,

01:08:19.496 --> 01:08:21.590
"Is medication harmful?"

01:08:21.998 --> 01:08:26.276
we got no support from the psychiatrist
that we saw. None.

01:08:26.488 --> 01:08:28.672
If it's not medication,
you're doing it wrong.

01:08:28.998 --> 01:08:30.585
But we stuck to our guns.

01:08:30.815 --> 01:08:34.268
It sounds dramatic but I feel
that decision saved our daughter's life.

01:08:34.489 --> 01:08:37.981
I kept thinking when she first told us
she was feeling depressed,

01:08:38.280 --> 01:08:40.924
that I wouldn't even have had
the vocabulary to say that

01:08:41.092 --> 01:08:42.664
when I was her age.

01:08:42.862 --> 01:08:44.525
That tells you a little bit about

01:08:44.766 --> 01:08:47.640
how pervasive this has become
in our society.

01:08:47.923 --> 01:08:50.469
I see children who are acting out

01:08:50.716 --> 01:08:53.343
or feeling distressed.

01:08:53.568 --> 01:08:56.371
They are like
the canaries in the coal mine,

01:08:56.831 --> 01:08:59.676
that are basically shouting out,

01:08:59.909 --> 01:09:01.989
"There is something wrong!"

01:09:02.177 --> 01:09:05.201
But we quiet them.

01:09:10.705 --> 01:09:13.814
I got out of the hospital.
They took me off medication.

01:09:14.082 --> 01:09:16.852
Within a few months,
I was back to normal.

01:09:17.153 --> 01:09:18.639
Not normal, but I was--

01:09:19.371 --> 01:09:21.704
My hallucinations were completely gone.

01:09:22.010 --> 01:09:25.281
And what was left were
the issues I began with

01:09:25.479 --> 01:09:27.901
The anxiety and the eating disorder.

01:09:28.082 --> 01:09:31.819
And then we could focus on those
because those were the problems.

01:09:34.196 --> 01:09:36.953
College was something that
I never thought that I would do

01:09:37.497 --> 01:09:39.710
during that year and even afterwards
I thought,

01:09:39.928 --> 01:09:42.785
"There's no way I can go
to college. I can't handle that."

01:09:42.984 --> 01:09:45.026
But here I am handling it.

01:09:45.272 --> 01:09:48.609
That's paradise for someone
who loves school as much as I do.

01:09:49.062 --> 01:09:52.031
I'm just kind of being
a normal college student and having fun

01:09:52.279 --> 01:09:55.615
because that's what I can actually do now.

01:09:56.705 --> 01:09:58.261
♪ That's our sorority!
La la! ♪

01:09:58.450 --> 01:10:00.001
♪ We're proud!
We're the best! ♪

01:10:00.216 --> 01:10:01.614
♪ Better than all the rest! ♪

01:10:01.824 --> 01:10:03.521
♪ We're proud!
We're the best! ♪

01:10:03.689 --> 01:10:05.268
♪ La, la, la, la, woo hoo! ♪

01:10:08.277 --> 01:10:09.592
Why did you do this for me?

01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:13.967
I was as concerned as you were
about coming off the drugs,

01:10:14.181 --> 01:10:16.591
and I wanted to make sure
you were in charge.

01:10:16.892 --> 01:10:18.632
You did what you felt was best,

01:10:18.820 --> 01:10:20.322
but you also had the tools

01:10:20.534 --> 01:10:21.854
laid out for you.

01:10:22.022 --> 01:10:23.289
The best way is

01:10:23.568 --> 01:10:25.214
essentially an exponential taper

01:10:25.442 --> 01:10:26.836
and we plotted that out here.

01:10:27.049 --> 01:10:28.122
That leads to

01:10:28.371 --> 01:10:30.567
this nice, slow

01:10:31.740 --> 01:10:35.360
decline over an extended period of time.

01:10:35.590 --> 01:10:36.809
Was it of any value?

01:10:37.066 --> 01:10:39.947
Well, yeah, because when I did it myself,

01:10:40.256 --> 01:10:42.953
I went down too quickly and

01:10:43.174 --> 01:10:44.600
it felt horrible.

01:10:45.194 --> 01:10:48.833
This gave me a clear plan
with specific dates and numbers.

01:10:49.057 --> 01:10:50.292
It was very helpful.

01:10:51.479 --> 01:10:52.645
Math can be love!

01:10:52.813 --> 01:10:55.199
[LAUGHTER]

01:10:55.520 --> 01:10:56.973
Aww!

01:10:57.212 --> 01:10:59.537
I see glimmers of

01:10:59.737 --> 01:11:00.764
the old Dave

01:11:00.979 --> 01:11:04.410
much more often than I have

01:11:05.071 --> 01:11:07.024
in several years.

01:11:07.281 --> 01:11:09.393
He's not there all the time,

01:11:09.667 --> 01:11:13.057
but I want to come home now.

01:11:13.467 --> 01:11:15.702
Whereas before, it was--

01:11:16.258 --> 01:11:20.155
Okay, take a couple of deep breaths and

01:11:22.423 --> 01:11:23.785
come home.

01:11:23.953 --> 01:11:25.164
Now I want to come home.

01:11:25.478 --> 01:11:27.732
It's a good feeling.

01:11:28.023 --> 01:11:29.672
It's nice to feel that again.

01:11:31.085 --> 01:11:34.162
[MUSIC]

01:11:57.652 --> 01:12:01.235
He got killed in action a month to the day
after I was medevacked out.

01:12:01.503 --> 01:12:04.139
So now I'm processing this grief
13 years later,

01:12:04.359 --> 01:12:07.096
and most people would say,
"You should be over it by now."

01:12:07.264 --> 01:12:10.670
I had to call one of my soldiers
to ask him to tell me the story again.

01:12:10.903 --> 01:12:13.736
The last time I heard it,
I was on drugs and didn't feel it.

01:12:14.949 --> 01:12:16.683
Now I need to sit by him and think,

01:12:16.969 --> 01:12:18.669
"Look what this war did to us."

01:12:18.836 --> 01:12:20.150
And feel it.

01:12:21.335 --> 01:12:24.618
[MUSIC]

01:12:30.179 --> 01:12:33.299
[MUSIC]

01:12:37.438 --> 01:12:40.885
[MUSIC & BACKGROUND VOICES]

01:12:50.959 --> 01:12:53.419
[BACKGROUND NOISE]

01:13:04.462 --> 01:13:07.649
[MUSIC]

01:13:39.835 --> 01:13:41.675
Yay!