WEBVTT

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[upbeat music]

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[indistinct chatter]

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In the Baltic states

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near the border with Russia,

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the information war is raging on like never before.

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[speaking Russian]

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[speaking Russian]

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It\'s a trap! Don\'t trust Russians!

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Don\'t trust them. They are deceivers and liars.

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Everything, what they say, is a lie.

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Causing confusion is a mighty weapon.

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And propaganda is a tried and tested war strategy.

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[speaking Russian]

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In five years, we never seen the scale as we see now.

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It is just crazy.

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Every little piece of puzzle,

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every asset they can use, they\'re using.

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For years now,

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Lithuania has been waging war on the influx

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of disinformation and fake news coming from Russia.

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On this border,

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NATO has stationed an international force.

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The tension with Russia is palpable.

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According to Russian\'s tactics and doctrines,

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I mean, war is peace and peace is war.

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So they have been conducting a war

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when we thought it was peace,

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and now they\'re trying to say,

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\"No, there is no war.\"

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The truth is under fire here

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on a daily basis.

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[speaking Russian]

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Since the invasion of Ukraine,

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the fear that this information war will turn physical

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is bigger than ever before.

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The Russian threat can be felt everywhere.

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It hasn\'t been this close as we experience it now.

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So now it\'s, kind of, right up in our face.

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We are in line and we are close in that line,

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and, yeah, that\'s really, really scary.

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It\'s absolutely around us.

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So why shouldn\'t we be next?

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How do you combat half and whole lies?

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How do you protect yourself from Russian propaganda?

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Information operations is is a serious thing.

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It is not something that should be ignored.

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Yeah, you have to fight back with truth, you know.

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This is \"Backlight\".

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Welcome in a world where truth is a weapon.

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[upbeat music]

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[radio speaking in Russian]

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In Lithuania, on the border with Russia,

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the information war has been raging for years.

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Resisting disinformation has been the order of the day

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here for a long time.

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The independent think tank, Debunk,

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investigates all the disinformation

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to make the country more resilient.

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Since the Russian invasion of Ukraine,

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this team has been at the highest state of readiness

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to dismantle disinformation about the invasion

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as quickly as possible.

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I was able to do it through Georgia.

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Now it doesn\'t seem to be working,

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so let\'s see how it goes.

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But, yeah, VPN is the best option for that.

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NordVPN doesn\'t give you Russian servers, I wonder why.

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On here they can.
Oh, really?

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Yes. Okay, let\'s see.

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Now I think I\'m connected. Yes.

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And you can pick multiple...

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Because we could check what\'s actually working in Russia

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and what\'s not,

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because now it\'s super weird.

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It changes every day.

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On Russian TV,

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they\'re saying that Vladimir Putin went

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and waged war on Nazis in Ukraine,

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which is just not true,

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but this is what they\'re saying.

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\"RT\" is one of the prominent Russian state media outlets,

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the other one is TACC.

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For example, here it says that Kyiv

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is refusing to open humanitarian corridors,

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which were proposed by Russia.

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And, yeah, they show the \"victories\" of Russian Army.

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So, here it says that they destroyed 2,396 objects

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of military equipment in Ukraine.

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Just now, he called that military in Mariupol City,

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they had a clash with Ukrainian nationalists.

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So they\'re not calling them,

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for example, Ukrainian Army,

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Ukrainian Armed Forces.

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It\'s \"Ukrainian nationalist.\"

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That\'s the narrative that\'s being used by the government.

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And you maybe notice also how they struggle.

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They call it surgical strikes.

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They talk about very, very precise

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and very narrow use of force

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for very specific targets in Donetsk and Lugansk.

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But then you have articles like these that talks about

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2,396 military objects destroyed.

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So there is, on the one hand,

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this very triumphalist narrative,

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but they somehow try to combine it with the narrative

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that it\'s all very, very targeted and very precise,

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and we are not killing civilians and so on.

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So the two things are obviously contradictory.

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When you build a narrative that is based on lies

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and disinformation,

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it becomes really, really difficult to keep track

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of what you have been saying.

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And inevitably you end up with this

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kind of contradictory statements.

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And then this kind of illogical, really, analysis of reality

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like in this article.

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[speaking Lithuanian]

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It\'s a way to recognize Russian tanks

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and military equipment and the guns that they\'re using,

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the heavy artillery, planes, and everything.

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And why do you need that?

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To analyze videos.

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How to recognize everything, what\'s happening.

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If you, kind of, recognize what\'s what.

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So when you watch in this online video,

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you need to detect, \"Whose military equipment is that?\"

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\"Is it Russian? Is it Belarusian? Is it Ukrainian?\"

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And they have some of the equipment similar,

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but a lot of it is actually different.

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It is crisis.

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It is a huge crisis. Now it\'s a European crisis.

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It\'s not just a problem in Ukraine. All of Europe.

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And do you feel like the disinformation

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attacks have increased as well?

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Dramatically.

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In five years, we never seen the scale as we see now.

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It is just crazy.

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In Kremlin\'s controlled media,

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the world is portrayed as a absolute barrel universe

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that has nothing to do with the truth.

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A number of attempts at opening humanitarian corridors

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to date have ended in failure.

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The next is expected to be made in five Ukrainian cities,

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including the country\'s capital.

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Today, one of those areas people are desperate to flee from,

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is Mariupol, in the country\'s southeast,

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where the situation really is grueling.

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The Russian defense ministry recently commented

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on the situation in the city claiming militants

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were using terrorist tactics.

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Nationalists open fire on all civilians

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who try to leave their homes.

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People are forced to paint on the walls

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and doors of houses,

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\"Don\'t shoot there are children here\".

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[speaking Russian]

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They\'re just blowing out of the proportion,

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the Nazi, for example,

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the Nazi narrative.

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So they\'re taking a far-right march in, let\'s say Kyiv,

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with a 100, 200 people,

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but they put it in a sort of context to make it seem that

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the whole of Ukraine is like this.

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And why are they doing that?

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To just, yeah, legitimize the conflict.

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To give ground to the explanation that Russia needs to

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go help people in Donetsk and Lugansk who are being

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oppressed by Nazi regime in Kyiv.

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That\'s the narrative.

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They had to ensure public support for this.

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Because, yeah, without public support,

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in the end of the day, the military won\'t go.

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The military also has to believe that they are doing this

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for the right cause, whatever the right cause is.

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Just imagine in occupied territories,

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they are just bringing buses, full buses, of pro-Russian

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people who will cheer that they got liberated.

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How crazy is that?

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Vladimir Putin has signed a decree recognizing

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the Donetsk and Lugansk republics as sovereign states.

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So they are creating these propaganda videos,

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and bringing people, them cheering, creating fireworks,

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and showing this then to the Russian citizens

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that they liberated Ukrainians from some kind of Nazis.

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What kind of parallel universe is that?

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There are also claims that fighters from

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nationalist battalions used people as human shields.

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[speaking Russian]

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[speaking Russian]

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These are the Russian military,

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going on a special military operation in Kyiv district.

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The brave Russian soldiers going to help liberate Kyiv

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from Nazis as they are saying.

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Now with the advanced technology and the scale of how easy

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you can reach target audiences like Russian...

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There were TikToks, sponsored TikToks,

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where Russian TikTokkers read from the paper that,

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\"Oh, like, this is military operation.

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We\'re helping Ukraine, we\'re liberating Ukraine.\"

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Every little piece of puzzle,

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every asset they can use, they are using.

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[influencers speaking Russian]

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The impact made from the tank

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you can see with your own eyes, it\'s really clear.

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It\'s a hole in the ground.

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It\'s dead people in the street.

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With disinformation,

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you don\'t see the impact right away.

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You only then,

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when the people refuse to go and protest Putin\'s regime,

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then you realize the scale.

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But it\'s just as impactful.

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I think so. I believe so.

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[chanting in Russian]

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Just looking at the legislation which has been passed

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in Russia in the last five years, let\'s say,

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it was getting tougher and tougher and tougher

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for independent press to work there.

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And now, yeah, with these new legislations being passed,

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as I\'ve mentioned that, yeah, if you say that Russia started

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a war in Ukraine, you can get up to 15 years of jail.

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But why has the scale of propaganda...

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Well, because they have to keep up, like,

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Russia and the Kremlin,

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they have to keep up the image that they\'ve created

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over the years.

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Because if they don\'t keep it up,

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if the public in Russia get the glimpses of truth,

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yeah, then they will go to the streets

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in way larger numbers.

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Because now people are going to the streets in Russia,

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but we are seeing them getting detained immediately.

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And quite brutally.

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[screaming in Russian]

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For a long time now,

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the Baltic states have lived in the fear that the Russians

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will go beyond propaganda and digital attacks.

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That\'s why, in 2004,

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NATO stationed an international force here.

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At some 100 kilometers from the border.

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Since the invasion of Ukraine,

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everything has started to shift.

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And the need for its presence has only increased.

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[contemplative piano music]

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Many of the countries that are participating

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and supporting the operations here in Lithuania

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has increased their presence.

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We see both.

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The Air Force has doubled in Siauliai

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in the northern part of Lithuania.

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The Americans in Pabradė

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is getting reinforcements in as well.

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And here in Rukla, the German-led EFP battle group,

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has brought its reinforcements in,

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which actually has increased the unit\'s strength with 50%

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from 1,000 to 1,500 soldiers here.

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And even more reinforcements might be on its way

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as we speak.

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So something has happened here as a response to

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the Russian invasion of the Ukraine.

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Right now, we\'re actually also moving a bit further now,

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in preparing to defend this place.

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NATO is revising all its plans and putting reaction forces

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on a higher state of alert.

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So everything is kind of gearing up.

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The headquarters are starting also to be more operational.

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00:15:13.680 --> 00:15:16.020
Getting ready to make operations here,

268
00:15:16.020 --> 00:15:17.193
should that be needed.

269
00:15:22.290 --> 00:15:25.050
The Lithuanians are really worried about what\'s happening.

270
00:15:25.050 --> 00:15:27.390
And finally I would say,

271
00:15:27.390 --> 00:15:31.860
the rest of Europe also has woken up to this situation,

272
00:15:31.860 --> 00:15:35.400
and kind of acknowledged what is happening

273
00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:37.683
and is reacting to it as well.

274
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.050
Actually, these countries, the three Baltic countries,

275
00:15:43.050 --> 00:15:45.660
have been saying for the last ten years

276
00:15:45.660 --> 00:15:48.933
that there is a clear and present danger from Russia.

277
00:15:53.850 --> 00:15:55.560
It\'s so close to us now.

278
00:15:55.560 --> 00:15:58.447
It\'s different when it was far away and we didn\'t really,

279
00:15:58.447 --> 00:16:00.930
\"Okay, what\'s the truth and the not-truth?\"

280
00:16:00.930 --> 00:16:05.160
It hasn\'t been this close as we experience it now.

281
00:16:05.160 --> 00:16:07.860
So now it\'s, kind of, right up in our face,

282
00:16:07.860 --> 00:16:09.150
and we see the pictures from there.

283
00:16:09.150 --> 00:16:10.080
And it\'s in...

284
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:12.810
I mean, I live and work in Vilnius.

285
00:16:12.810 --> 00:16:15.810
30 kilometers from there you have the border to Belarus.

286
00:16:15.810 --> 00:16:18.990
And the Russians are attacking from there to Ukraine.

287
00:16:18.990 --> 00:16:20.700
So it\'s so close here.

288
00:16:20.700 --> 00:16:23.070
And I think that gives the Europeans also

289
00:16:23.070 --> 00:16:25.117
another sense of wakeup,

290
00:16:25.117 --> 00:16:26.250
\"Hey, what\'s happening here?

291
00:16:26.250 --> 00:16:28.710
This is right at our doorstep now.\"

292
00:16:37.835 --> 00:16:40.585
[speaking Dutch]

293
00:16:54.322 --> 00:16:58.072
[interviewer speaking Dutch]

294
00:17:01.128 --> 00:17:03.878
[speaking Dutch]

295
00:17:22.796 --> 00:17:25.072
[interviewer speaking Dutch]

296
00:17:25.072 --> 00:17:27.822
[speaking Dutch]

297
00:17:31.475 --> 00:17:33.520
[interviewer speaking Dutch]

298
00:17:33.520 --> 00:17:36.270
[speaking Dutch]

299
00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:45.360
According to Russians tactics and doctrines,

300
00:17:45.360 --> 00:17:48.240
I mean, war is peace and peace is war.

301
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:50.850
So, they have been conducting a war

302
00:17:50.850 --> 00:17:52.560
when we thought it was peace.

303
00:17:52.560 --> 00:17:53.497
And now they\'re trying to say,

304
00:17:53.497 --> 00:17:55.440
\"No, there is no war. This is peaceful.

305
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.570
This is just a military...\"

306
00:17:57.570 --> 00:17:59.070
Something adjustment they\'re doing.

307
00:17:59.070 --> 00:18:00.840
So, they\'re playing with this,

308
00:18:00.840 --> 00:18:05.100
and they\'ve been doing that very, I\'d say,

309
00:18:05.100 --> 00:18:06.960
very successful until now.

310
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:09.480
So now it\'s, kind of, I think there is a realization

311
00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:12.993
in the West that this is another way of war,

312
00:18:12.993 --> 00:18:14.853
it\'s not traditional war.

313
00:18:15.990 --> 00:18:18.300
Things are mixed, and different levels,

314
00:18:18.300 --> 00:18:21.060
and truth is being attacked all the time,

315
00:18:21.060 --> 00:18:23.493
and so we have really to be careful about that.

316
00:18:26.790 --> 00:18:29.220
Perhaps we should try to be a bit like them:

317
00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:32.173
try to log into hybrid warfare as a kind of

318
00:18:32.173 --> 00:18:33.900
an offensive tool,

319
00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.140
and not just being on the defensive side all the time.

320
00:18:37.140 --> 00:18:39.870
And I must say I\'m very happy to see how the Americans

321
00:18:39.870 --> 00:18:42.300
treated this, at least on the media side.

322
00:18:42.300 --> 00:18:44.220
We need to stick to the truth,

323
00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:46.800
but we could use the truth more offensively.

324
00:18:46.800 --> 00:18:49.710
I mean, we could push the truth to the Russian side.

325
00:18:49.710 --> 00:18:53.670
I invite every Western, NATO country to come here and see

326
00:18:53.670 --> 00:18:57.240
how this frontline nation really is fighting the hybrid war,

327
00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:01.200
and how they are conducting the organization and everything.

328
00:19:01.200 --> 00:19:02.460
They have so much experience,

329
00:19:02.460 --> 00:19:06.195
and they don\'t brag about it, but they\'re really good at it.

330
00:19:06.195 --> 00:19:10.362
[cacophony of Russian broadcasts]

331
00:19:13.860 --> 00:19:16.470
For years now, Lithuania has been saying that

332
00:19:16.470 --> 00:19:19.440
fighting Russian propaganda should not be left

333
00:19:19.440 --> 00:19:21.393
to the media or civilians.

334
00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:25.950
The country has taken military measures to protect itself

335
00:19:25.950 --> 00:19:27.843
from aggressive untruths.

336
00:19:29.190 --> 00:19:32.322
The information invasion is seen as a precursor

337
00:19:32.322 --> 00:19:34.563
to tanks waltzing in.

338
00:19:35.850 --> 00:19:38.010
Therefore, their Ministry of Defence

339
00:19:38.010 --> 00:19:42.840
monitors all media, 24/7, for fake news.

340
00:19:42.840 --> 00:19:44.310
In this control room,

341
00:19:44.310 --> 00:19:46.800
they saw the preparations for the war coming

342
00:19:46.800 --> 00:19:47.808
well in advance.

343
00:19:47.808 --> 00:19:52.140
[cacophony of Russian broadcasts]

344
00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:54.330
Our national commission on

345
00:19:54.330 --> 00:19:56.160
TV and radio issues,

346
00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:01.160
decided to ban the most prominent Russian and Belarus

347
00:20:01.410 --> 00:20:06.410
state TV channels, because it violates our national law.

348
00:20:07.710 --> 00:20:11.075
The warfare is happening not only

349
00:20:11.075 --> 00:20:14.580
on land, on air, in the seas,

350
00:20:14.580 --> 00:20:19.170
but the warfare is happening in information environments.

351
00:20:19.170 --> 00:20:23.220
So it\'s very important to us, as a military institution,

352
00:20:23.220 --> 00:20:24.810
to be up to date.

353
00:20:24.810 --> 00:20:27.120
To observe what is happening.

354
00:20:27.120 --> 00:20:31.410
To analyze and understand the aim of the

355
00:20:31.410 --> 00:20:35.433
information spreading and its purposes and its targets.

356
00:20:38.850 --> 00:20:40.957
It shows, now, to the world to what

357
00:20:40.957 --> 00:20:43.170
we were saying many years.

358
00:20:43.170 --> 00:20:48.170
Our unit is established about 10 years ago,

359
00:20:48.570 --> 00:20:53.550
a few years after Russia started its first war in Ukraine.

360
00:20:53.550 --> 00:20:55.500
And during all this time,

361
00:20:55.500 --> 00:20:59.220
we observed how information warfare was happening.

362
00:20:59.220 --> 00:21:03.450
Maybe in more, how to say, silent way,

363
00:21:03.450 --> 00:21:08.450
but now, all the world can see how the information warfare

364
00:21:09.289 --> 00:21:14.289
is happening together with the real military actions,

365
00:21:16.620 --> 00:21:19.743
with the real military invasion inside the country.

366
00:21:20.910 --> 00:21:25.910
We see the assessment of Russia\'s tensions around Ukraine

367
00:21:26.220 --> 00:21:31.080
in months before Russia decided to attack,

368
00:21:31.080 --> 00:21:36.080
before February, because we see how the narrative

369
00:21:36.482 --> 00:21:38.730
has been changed.

370
00:21:38.730 --> 00:21:43.730
We see, by the real examples, how information environment

371
00:21:44.772 --> 00:21:49.772
was being prepared by Russia\'s and Belarus\' state media

372
00:21:50.400 --> 00:21:55.211
sources to justify the war narrative,

373
00:21:55.211 --> 00:21:59.940
and to get the support to its action.

374
00:21:59.940 --> 00:22:02.190
You saw it coming in a way.

375
00:22:02.190 --> 00:22:03.023
Yes.

376
00:22:03.023 --> 00:22:07.850
We see absolutely correlation and the merge of the warfare

377
00:22:09.021 --> 00:22:13.803
in information environment and physical environment.

378
00:22:14.670 --> 00:22:19.670
And it means we always saw the reality

379
00:22:20.580 --> 00:22:23.910
of Russia\'s military actions.

380
00:22:23.910 --> 00:22:28.173
And then, we see that, unfortunately,

381
00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:32.220
our observations were right.

382
00:22:32.220 --> 00:22:37.080
Hmm. So you live in Lithuania?

383
00:22:37.080 --> 00:22:38.130
Yes.

384
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:42.053
Does it scare you that they invaded Ukraine?

385
00:22:43.020 --> 00:22:44.370
You know, it scares...

386
00:22:44.370 --> 00:22:49.290
It makes scared every normal people.

387
00:22:49.290 --> 00:22:54.240
We have no guarantees that Russia will stop there.

388
00:22:54.240 --> 00:22:58.560
Russia will stop in the place it will be stopped.

389
00:22:58.560 --> 00:23:02.853
We must be not scared, but we must be aware.

390
00:23:08.250 --> 00:23:11.333
[indistinct chatter]

391
00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:17.280
Here we see a video made by \"Targa TV\",

392
00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:21.900
who is owned by an oligarch that is close to Putin.

393
00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:24.360
This video is something that...

394
00:23:24.360 --> 00:23:26.233
It\'s just mind blowing.

395
00:23:26.233 --> 00:23:29.150
[speaking Russian]

396
00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:38.677
This campaign started on March the 1st.

397
00:23:39.835 --> 00:23:43.740
The Ministry of Education announced that all children

398
00:23:43.740 --> 00:23:47.580
from six years, so basically from the first grade,

399
00:23:47.580 --> 00:23:51.480
need to be educated about Ukrainian invasion

400
00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:53.977
or how they called it, \"special operation.\"

401
00:23:53.977 --> 00:23:56.190
\"Liberation of Ukraine.\"

402
00:23:56.190 --> 00:23:57.023
And so on.

403
00:23:57.023 --> 00:24:00.250
So, kind of, this is an official decision of

404
00:24:01.170 --> 00:24:02.763
Russian Ministry of Education.

405
00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:04.493
And they started, like...

406
00:24:04.493 --> 00:24:08.700
All the teachers now are being instructed how they need to

407
00:24:08.700 --> 00:24:11.529
educate children on this event.

408
00:24:11.529 --> 00:24:14.446
[speaking Russian]

409
00:24:41.766 --> 00:24:44.683
[speaking Russian]

410
00:25:04.704 --> 00:25:07.621
[speaking Russian]

411
00:25:26.020 --> 00:25:27.600
Incredible.

412
00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:31.800
And now there are decisions and instructions

413
00:25:31.800 --> 00:25:35.880
to all the teachers in Russia how they need to educate

414
00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:37.500
the children in the schools.

415
00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:40.290
Some teachers are protesting against that,

416
00:25:40.290 --> 00:25:43.200
but now there is this law that if something is communicated

417
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:44.670
different than the government wants,

418
00:25:44.670 --> 00:25:48.570
then they might end up with up to fifteen years in prison.

419
00:25:48.570 --> 00:25:51.840
Teachers are very important for kids.

420
00:25:51.840 --> 00:25:54.507
Kids cannot learn if they don\'t trust teachers.

421
00:25:54.507 --> 00:25:56.806
And now the teachers that they trust,

422
00:25:56.806 --> 00:26:00.120
they need to provide this content to the kids,

423
00:26:00.120 --> 00:26:01.500
which is just a brainwashing.

424
00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:03.273
It\'s an absolute brainwash.

425
00:26:04.470 --> 00:26:06.420
I think we also recognize the pattern,

426
00:26:06.420 --> 00:26:09.540
because we had this also in Lithuania, yeah?

427
00:26:09.540 --> 00:26:12.690
When we were forced to be in Soviet Union and, you know,

428
00:26:12.690 --> 00:26:14.970
when you have children and they go to

429
00:26:14.970 --> 00:26:18.630
these pioneer campings, and they are joining some

430
00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:21.360
pioneer organizations.

431
00:26:21.360 --> 00:26:23.790
And they are just brainwashing them.

432
00:26:23.790 --> 00:26:28.790
And, after all, when we have, how to say, get rid of this

433
00:26:29.730 --> 00:26:32.640
Soviet Union, when it collapsed and we got our independence,

434
00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:35.940
we saw that everything that was there was absolutely lies

435
00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:38.280
and not true.

436
00:26:38.280 --> 00:26:39.930
And that we were just brainwashed.

437
00:26:39.930 --> 00:26:43.060
So what we see now is exactly the same what was happening

438
00:26:43.060 --> 00:26:45.300
during the Soviet Union.

439
00:26:45.300 --> 00:26:46.530
So it\'s just...

440
00:26:46.530 --> 00:26:48.723
That\'s why it\'s embarrassing so much.

441
00:26:51.060 --> 00:26:52.470
Does it make you mad?

442
00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:55.620
Yeah absolutely, because it\'s unfair and it\'s not true.

443
00:26:55.620 --> 00:27:00.620
So they will live in the parallel universe like we did,

444
00:27:01.950 --> 00:27:03.220
and that was painful.

445
00:27:05.973 --> 00:27:08.890
[speaking Russian]

446
00:27:13.477 --> 00:27:16.394
[speaking Russian]

447
00:27:28.911 --> 00:27:33.468
She says, \"How many people, that many opinions.\"

448
00:27:33.468 --> 00:27:36.385
[speaking Russian]

449
00:27:47.658 --> 00:27:50.575
[speaking Russian]

450
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:17.196
[speaking Russian]

451
00:28:21.583 --> 00:28:23.359
[speaking Russian]

452
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.276
[speaking Russian]

453
00:28:28.710 --> 00:28:30.270
This is super professional.

454
00:28:30.270 --> 00:28:31.833
Just look at the studio.

455
00:28:32.760 --> 00:28:34.740
How everything is prepared.

456
00:28:34.740 --> 00:28:36.300
This didn\'t happen overnight.

457
00:28:36.300 --> 00:28:38.730
To prepare the programs, to prepare the communication,

458
00:28:38.730 --> 00:28:39.720
to prepare...

459
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:41.970
Just think, like, how much time it takes to do

460
00:28:41.970 --> 00:28:43.920
something in Ministry of Education.

461
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.540
So this was long time prepared,

462
00:28:45.540 --> 00:28:47.380
and now they are implementing it,

463
00:28:47.380 --> 00:28:49.170
because they knew that this would be a problem.

464
00:28:49.170 --> 00:28:51.690
They are creating this information blockade,

465
00:28:51.690 --> 00:28:53.670
so citizens of Russia would not understand

466
00:28:53.670 --> 00:28:54.660
what\'s actually happening,

467
00:28:54.660 --> 00:28:57.990
and they would just believe in this parallel universe

468
00:28:57.990 --> 00:28:59.520
that Russia is creating.

469
00:28:59.520 --> 00:29:01.500
I think it\'s a very desperate move,

470
00:29:01.500 --> 00:29:03.510
to deceive children.

471
00:29:03.510 --> 00:29:06.630
And everyone who will see this in the West,

472
00:29:06.630 --> 00:29:09.810
everyone will agree that this is just crazy.

473
00:29:09.810 --> 00:29:11.073
This should never happen.

474
00:29:13.320 --> 00:29:14.640
In the Baltic states,

475
00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:17.851
it\'s been possible for some time now to take TV stations

476
00:29:17.851 --> 00:29:22.380
off the air when they\'re seen as a military threat.

477
00:29:22.380 --> 00:29:23.640
In recent weeks,

478
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.510
the eight most prominent Russian stations have been blocked

479
00:29:27.510 --> 00:29:30.570
because of inflammatory statements about Ukraine

480
00:29:30.570 --> 00:29:33.600
and because of war propaganda.

481
00:29:33.600 --> 00:29:36.180
The Radio and Television Commission of Lithuania

482
00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:41.180
is meeting today to discuss the ninth Russian TV station.

483
00:29:41.373 --> 00:29:44.290
[speaking Russian]

484
00:30:10.349 --> 00:30:13.516
[speaking Lithuanian]

485
00:30:18.787 --> 00:30:21.954
[speaking Lithuanian]

486
00:30:49.985 --> 00:30:53.152
[speaking Lithuanian]

487
00:31:16.847 --> 00:31:20.401
Why is this TV station, why is it banned?

488
00:31:20.401 --> 00:31:22.260
Just because of the situation in the Ukraine.

489
00:31:22.260 --> 00:31:27.260
We are showing propaganda to Lithuania, that\'s why.

490
00:31:29.550 --> 00:31:32.100
You know, the situation in Ukraine is pretty tough.

491
00:31:35.250 --> 00:31:36.150
So we don\'t...

492
00:31:36.150 --> 00:31:38.940
We need to keep our minds of our citizens

493
00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:40.143
a little bit healthier,

494
00:31:41.280 --> 00:31:45.690
because they are actually directly asking to go fight or

495
00:31:45.690 --> 00:31:47.430
you know, stuff like that.

496
00:31:47.430 --> 00:31:48.927
Maybe a few years ago,

497
00:31:48.927 --> 00:31:52.110
the European Union would look different at a committee

498
00:31:52.110 --> 00:31:54.510
like your committee than they do now, right?

499
00:31:54.510 --> 00:31:55.620
Yeah, I hope so, yeah.

500
00:31:55.620 --> 00:32:00.453
I would love that they could pay attention earlier.

501
00:32:02.010 --> 00:32:02.970
As often...

502
00:32:02.970 --> 00:32:06.934
Even politicians from Lithuania or Baltic countries,

503
00:32:06.934 --> 00:32:09.727
they tried often to say,

504
00:32:09.727 --> 00:32:13.920
\"Keep watching much more deeper to what is

505
00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:14.940
happening in Russia.\"

506
00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:17.640
Was all for information war too.

507
00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:21.120
But, you know, we Europeans are so kind, so correct

508
00:32:21.120 --> 00:32:26.040
that we are afraid, you know, to go too fast, too forward...

509
00:32:26.040 --> 00:32:27.090
Yeah.

510
00:32:27.090 --> 00:32:28.650
And now happened what happened.

511
00:32:28.650 --> 00:32:29.483
Yes.

512
00:32:29.483 --> 00:32:32.850
It helps, perhaps, for the Western countries,

513
00:32:32.850 --> 00:32:35.310
for the Western democratic countries,

514
00:32:35.310 --> 00:32:39.810
to realize, you know, the whole damage they are doing.

515
00:32:39.810 --> 00:32:44.700
And it was much easier now, even for European Union,

516
00:32:44.700 --> 00:32:49.560
and even for YouTube to ban Russian propaganda.

517
00:32:49.560 --> 00:32:50.393
Yeah.

518
00:32:50.393 --> 00:32:51.390
Because before it was unimaginable

519
00:32:51.390 --> 00:32:55.200
how in our democratic, free speech Europe we can ban

520
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:56.130
some TV station.

521
00:32:56.130 --> 00:33:00.090
Now it seems that there is no question that we have to do

522
00:33:00.090 --> 00:33:03.930
because this kind of weapon that they are attacking us.

523
00:33:03.930 --> 00:33:08.520
So the war in Ukraine helped for us, also Europeans.

524
00:33:08.520 --> 00:33:13.520
And even with long tradition of democracy,

525
00:33:13.560 --> 00:33:15.960
to understand that it\'s necessary.

526
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:18.630
It\'s not the banning of the free speech,

527
00:33:18.630 --> 00:33:21.453
but the banning of brainwash.

528
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:24.805
Russia sees this differently.

529
00:33:24.805 --> 00:33:26.130
[Giedrius speaking Russian]

530
00:33:26.130 --> 00:33:29.839
And by now has blocked all Western news stations.

531
00:33:29.839 --> 00:33:32.550
[Giedrius speaking Russian]

532
00:33:32.550 --> 00:33:34.860
Hardly any information from the West

533
00:33:34.860 --> 00:33:36.543
enters the country anymore.

534
00:33:37.380 --> 00:33:40.770
Lithuanian civilians are involved in the crisis in Ukraine

535
00:33:40.770 --> 00:33:42.450
in several ways.

536
00:33:42.450 --> 00:33:46.620
For them, convincing the Russians of a different reality

537
00:33:46.620 --> 00:33:49.106
is an essential part of the war.

538
00:33:49.106 --> 00:33:52.773
[Giedrius speaking Russian]

539
00:34:02.310 --> 00:34:05.347
Giedrius is one of many Lithuanians who use the

540
00:34:05.347 --> 00:34:09.030
\"Call Russia\" app to make contact with Russians to tell

541
00:34:09.030 --> 00:34:12.120
them how he sees the situation in Ukraine.

542
00:34:12.120 --> 00:34:12.953
One more.

543
00:34:16.457 --> 00:34:20.124
[Giedrius speaking Russian]

544
00:34:29.044 --> 00:34:32.544
[conversation in Russian]

545
00:34:40.985 --> 00:34:45.985
[automated voicemail]
[Giedrius sighs]

546
00:34:46.656 --> 00:34:47.489
One more.

547
00:34:48.766 --> 00:34:53.766
[phone beeping]
[dramatic music]

548
00:34:58.313 --> 00:35:01.813
[conversation in Russian]

549
00:35:30.058 --> 00:35:34.391
[conversation in Russian continues]

550
00:36:00.145 --> 00:36:04.478
[conversation in Russian continues]

551
00:36:29.800 --> 00:36:34.133
[conversation in Russian continues]

552
00:36:59.729 --> 00:37:04.062
[conversation in Russian continues]

553
00:37:29.670 --> 00:37:34.003
[conversation in Russian continues]

554
00:37:59.875 --> 00:38:04.208
[conversation in Russian continues]

555
00:38:30.471 --> 00:38:34.804
[conversation in Russian continues]

556
00:38:42.098 --> 00:38:46.770
[Giedrius sighs]
[dramatic music]

557
00:38:46.770 --> 00:38:49.773
That\'s my weapon. Today it\'s my weapon, yeah.

558
00:38:50.746 --> 00:38:52.440
Do you think you changed something

559
00:38:52.440 --> 00:38:54.600
by this conversation, in his mind?

560
00:38:54.600 --> 00:38:55.503
I hope yes.

561
00:38:57.480 --> 00:38:58.950
I want to change...

562
00:38:58.950 --> 00:39:01.380
I understand, like,

563
00:39:01.380 --> 00:39:06.180
it\'s not really to change now in this moment,

564
00:39:06.180 --> 00:39:08.910
but if I change something in his mind,

565
00:39:08.910 --> 00:39:13.910
something about information, about Ukraine,

566
00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:16.710
about the people in Ukraine, it\'s good.

567
00:39:16.710 --> 00:39:17.543
It\'s good point.

568
00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:26.370
The warriors of Debunk have also found a way to

569
00:39:26.370 --> 00:39:28.830
use truth as a weapon.

570
00:39:28.830 --> 00:39:32.790
Besides dismantling disinformation, they address students.

571
00:39:32.790 --> 00:39:37.790
To tell them what disinformation is and how to recognize it.

572
00:39:37.890 --> 00:39:39.300
Because of the invasion,

573
00:39:39.300 --> 00:39:42.870
this lesson is now broadcast nationwide.

574
00:39:42.870 --> 00:39:46.470
That is their way of fighting on the frontline

575
00:39:46.470 --> 00:39:48.033
of the information war.

576
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:55.469
[conversation in Lithuanian]

577
00:39:58.500 --> 00:40:02.233
All of a sudden, I forgot what I\'m about to say. [laughs]

578
00:40:02.233 --> 00:40:07.233
But that\'s okay. It\'s alright. It\'s okay. [laughs]

579
00:40:08.850 --> 00:40:10.350
Are you nervous?

580
00:40:10.350 --> 00:40:11.917
No, why would you think that?

581
00:40:11.917 --> 00:40:15.000
No. [laughs]

582
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.530
Why would you think I\'m nervous?

583
00:40:16.530 --> 00:40:19.110
I\'m not nervous, not at all.

584
00:40:19.110 --> 00:40:22.590
That\'s completely natural to me. [laughs]

585
00:40:22.590 --> 00:40:24.300
But, no, for the good cause

586
00:40:24.300 --> 00:40:26.793
I can sacrifice an hour of anxiety.

587
00:40:28.470 --> 00:40:29.910
And what is the good cause?

588
00:40:29.910 --> 00:40:33.270
When the Ministry of Education approached us last week,

589
00:40:33.270 --> 00:40:36.450
with a request to make media literacy material,

590
00:40:36.450 --> 00:40:39.870
because the teachers were getting anxious.

591
00:40:39.870 --> 00:40:42.690
Because the kids were just starting to discuss

592
00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:44.010
the war in Ukraine.

593
00:40:44.010 --> 00:40:46.110
And, yeah, as a preventative measure

594
00:40:46.110 --> 00:40:48.090
to protect them from disinformation.

595
00:40:48.090 --> 00:40:50.460
And there was no ready prepared material

596
00:40:50.460 --> 00:40:52.710
to be distributed for the kids.

597
00:40:52.710 --> 00:40:55.110
Just really practical things.

598
00:40:55.110 --> 00:40:58.690
How they can protect themselves from disinformational lying.

599
00:40:58.690 --> 00:41:02.580
[Karina speaking in Lithuanian]

600
00:41:02.580 --> 00:41:03.413
In my opinion,

601
00:41:03.413 --> 00:41:06.030
this should have been done years ago.

602
00:41:06.030 --> 00:41:07.470
You know, this sort of initiative.

603
00:41:07.470 --> 00:41:09.813
But I\'m really glad it\'s happening now.

604
00:41:10.690 --> 00:41:15.690
[conversation in Lithuanian]
[suspenseful music]

605
00:41:19.080 --> 00:41:20.463
Why am I here?

606
00:41:21.870 --> 00:41:23.283
My palms are sweaty.

607
00:41:24.247 --> 00:41:26.491
\"Mom\'s spaghetti.\" [laughs]

608
00:41:26.491 --> 00:41:29.582
You just give them a sign that \"this part I want to redo,\"

609
00:41:29.582 --> 00:41:33.468
and then you start again with that part.

610
00:41:33.468 --> 00:41:37.468
[Karina speaking in Lithuanian]

611
00:42:02.675 --> 00:42:07.508
[Karina continues speaking in Lithuanian]

612
00:42:24.119 --> 00:42:27.286
[speaking Lithuanian]

613
00:42:31.830 --> 00:42:33.660
Katrina, we saw the big show,

614
00:42:33.660 --> 00:42:35.310
the big Russian show.

615
00:42:35.310 --> 00:42:36.633
Is this our answer?

616
00:42:37.800 --> 00:42:39.870
I wouldn\'t compare these two things, you know,

617
00:42:39.870 --> 00:42:44.070
because the aim and the audience and the message

618
00:42:44.070 --> 00:42:45.570
is completely different.

619
00:42:45.570 --> 00:42:48.900
Of course, you can always get bigger production.

620
00:42:48.900 --> 00:42:51.240
And you can get bigger.

621
00:42:51.240 --> 00:42:53.700
Maybe somebody who is, like, famous, not me.

622
00:42:53.700 --> 00:42:56.040
Like an influencer speaking about, like,

623
00:42:56.040 --> 00:42:57.930
the dangers of disinformation.

624
00:42:57.930 --> 00:43:01.380
But I think as a first step, it\'s already really important.

625
00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:02.847
But it looks like they\'re more, like,

626
00:43:02.847 --> 00:43:03.680
the Russians-

627
00:43:03.680 --> 00:43:04.830
Oh yeah, they have more money.

628
00:43:04.830 --> 00:43:07.140
Oh for sure they have more money on things like that.

629
00:43:07.140 --> 00:43:09.960
Their budgets for disinformation are insane.

630
00:43:09.960 --> 00:43:12.330
For state TV, for...

631
00:43:12.330 --> 00:43:14.280
RT gets massive budgets.

632
00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:17.580
I cannot get you the number from the top of my head

633
00:43:17.580 --> 00:43:19.950
but it\'s a millions and millions of dollars.

634
00:43:19.950 --> 00:43:23.520
Of course they put a lot of money and a lot of effort

635
00:43:23.520 --> 00:43:28.302
into producing disinformation.

636
00:43:28.302 --> 00:43:30.450
[Karina speaking in Lithuanian]

637
00:43:30.450 --> 00:43:31.283
But on the whole,

638
00:43:31.283 --> 00:43:33.690
do you think we\'re investing enough in defending us

639
00:43:33.690 --> 00:43:35.490
against these big productions?

640
00:43:35.490 --> 00:43:36.990
I don\'t think...

641
00:43:36.990 --> 00:43:38.310
In my personal opinion,

642
00:43:38.310 --> 00:43:43.310
I think there is more talk now than actual action, yeah.

643
00:43:43.770 --> 00:43:45.990
And what would actual action be?

644
00:43:45.990 --> 00:43:50.990
Yeah, just as you said, there are really well-established

645
00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:56.160
narratives with Kremlin propaganda specifically.

646
00:43:56.160 --> 00:43:58.260
But there are not enough counter narratives.

647
00:43:58.260 --> 00:44:02.640
And not enough ways to communicate the counter narratives.

648
00:44:02.640 --> 00:44:05.790
So I think that would be one of the first steps

649
00:44:05.790 --> 00:44:06.623
of answering.

650
00:44:06.623 --> 00:44:09.960
Actually putting in the effort of having

651
00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:11.760
the counter narratives ready,

652
00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:13.560
and then communicating them.

653
00:44:13.560 --> 00:44:15.720
So we should fight back more?

654
00:44:15.720 --> 00:44:17.310
Yeah, for sure.

655
00:44:17.310 --> 00:44:21.060
But also use more ethical and more...

656
00:44:21.060 --> 00:44:23.637
Yeah, you have to fight back with truth, you know.

657
00:44:26.675 --> 00:44:29.842
[speaking Lithuanian]

658
00:44:36.829 --> 00:44:40.195
Fabio, do you have the edurom?

659
00:44:40.195 --> 00:44:41.028
No.

660
00:44:41.028 --> 00:44:41.861
No, okay.

661
00:44:41.861 --> 00:44:44.190
Yeah, no worries, I will...

662
00:44:44.190 --> 00:44:45.330
We all...

663
00:44:45.330 --> 00:44:48.748
Here we live with this looming threat of Russia.

664
00:44:48.748 --> 00:44:52.320
The whole existence of Lithuania basically.

665
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:56.070
And because we have these bitter historical lessons,

666
00:44:56.070 --> 00:44:59.730
these memories of all the wrong things that were done

667
00:44:59.730 --> 00:45:03.247
to our country, we cannot help but think,

668
00:45:03.247 --> 00:45:07.320
\"Okay, well, if we\'re not next then we\'re the third.

669
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.830
But we are in line. And we are close in that line.

670
00:45:10.830 --> 00:45:15.830
And, yeah, that\'s really, really scary to think.

671
00:45:16.860 --> 00:45:19.170
We have a lot of borders...

672
00:45:19.170 --> 00:45:20.924
And Kaliningrad is so close.

673
00:45:20.924 --> 00:45:21.809
Yeah, Kaliningrad is...

674
00:45:21.809 --> 00:45:23.500
And there is so much stuff in there.

675
00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:28.350
Yeah, so it\'s, like, absolutely around us.

676
00:45:28.350 --> 00:45:30.273
So why shouldn\'t we be next?

677
00:45:31.530 --> 00:45:33.483
It\'s very easy just to cut off.

678
00:45:35.550 --> 00:45:38.703
Of course, we are in NATO so we are maybe more secured.

679
00:45:40.579 --> 00:45:43.710
But, you know, we are also watching all those things

680
00:45:43.710 --> 00:45:45.300
happening with NATO,

681
00:45:45.300 --> 00:45:50.250
and it\'s not always that all NATO countries are so united

682
00:45:50.250 --> 00:45:51.420
for taking some actions.

683
00:45:51.420 --> 00:45:53.085
So we never know how it will be

684
00:45:53.085 --> 00:45:55.830
when the invasion would take place in Lithuania.

685
00:45:55.830 --> 00:45:58.590
So would they be so united?

686
00:45:58.590 --> 00:45:59.760
They will be more united,

687
00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:01.627
or they won\'t be so much united and say,

688
00:46:01.627 --> 00:46:04.145
\"Oh, look Estonia is just one million people.

689
00:46:04.145 --> 00:46:05.970
Just give it away to Russia.

690
00:46:05.970 --> 00:46:09.270
No problem. We don\'t want problems.\"

691
00:46:09.270 --> 00:46:10.410
Would you also say that if

692
00:46:10.410 --> 00:46:12.060
your worst fear materializes,

693
00:46:12.060 --> 00:46:15.930
you\'re also preparing to fight back?

694
00:46:15.930 --> 00:46:16.763
Oh yeah.

695
00:46:17.820 --> 00:46:21.660
I think also, for me personally,

696
00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:26.660
I know that if it would come to worst, I would not run.

697
00:46:27.540 --> 00:46:32.070
Because, yeah, what\'s the point to be honest?

698
00:46:32.070 --> 00:46:36.840
Like, if I would run, knowingly that there might not be

699
00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.603
a place for me to come back, no.

700
00:46:40.860 --> 00:46:41.943
I think I would stay.

701
00:46:43.980 --> 00:46:45.270
You can take Lithuania.

702
00:46:45.270 --> 00:46:47.757
You can conquer it, but you will not keep it.

703
00:46:47.757 --> 00:46:49.320
So, like, everybody would fight,

704
00:46:49.320 --> 00:46:53.070
everybody would go to forest and could fight for years.

705
00:46:53.070 --> 00:46:57.000
So it\'s like, we are going to be a pain in their ass

706
00:46:57.000 --> 00:46:58.650
if they will attack us.
[Karina laughing]

707
00:46:58.650 --> 00:47:01.650
So even if they, you know, they will finish this attack

708
00:47:01.650 --> 00:47:04.248
successfully and, you know, there will be completely

709
00:47:04.248 --> 00:47:08.743
military around us, we will still not keep it like that.

710
00:47:08.743 --> 00:47:12.900
And you know, one thing that I\'m scared of, personally,

711
00:47:12.900 --> 00:47:14.880
I know that I am on their list.

712
00:47:14.880 --> 00:47:18.510
So if they will be here,

713
00:47:18.510 --> 00:47:22.320
and they will win the war with Lithuania,

714
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:26.130
so I\'m sure that I will be on that train to Siberia

715
00:47:26.130 --> 00:47:31.050
like my grandmother was and like my grandfather was.

716
00:47:31.050 --> 00:47:32.510
And he died there in those...

717
00:47:34.030 --> 00:47:36.521
[Girius speaking in Lithuanian]

718
00:47:36.521 --> 00:47:38.008
Concentration camps. Labor camps.

719
00:47:38.008 --> 00:47:39.090
Concentration camps, yes.

720
00:47:39.090 --> 00:47:40.293
Why are you on their list?

721
00:47:40.293 --> 00:47:42.510
Yeah, because I am against them.

722
00:47:42.510 --> 00:47:45.600
So, they will definitely destroy everyone

723
00:47:45.600 --> 00:47:46.653
who is against them.

724
00:47:47.547 --> 00:47:50.160
The frontliners will be dead at first.

725
00:47:50.160 --> 00:47:51.600
So you\'re the frontliner now?

726
00:47:51.600 --> 00:47:53.970
I\'m sure. I\'m sure I am. Yeah.

727
00:47:53.970 --> 00:47:56.423
My father was and I think I am, so...

728
00:47:58.578 --> 00:48:02.495
[military drum marching music]

729
00:48:13.415 --> 00:48:16.582
[speaking Lithuanian]

730
00:48:18.485 --> 00:48:21.652
[speaking Lithuanian]

731
00:48:48.247 --> 00:48:51.414
[speaking Lithuanian]

732
00:49:03.972 --> 00:49:08.889
[crowd singing Lithuanian national anthem]

733
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:33.116
[crowd singing Lithuanian national anthem]

734
00:49:34.703 --> 00:49:37.453
[dramatic music]

735
00:50:01.970 --> 00:50:04.553
[upbeat music]