WEBVTT
X-TIMESTAMP-MAP=LOCAL:00:00:00.000,MPEGTS:0

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And Steve kicking in another pound.
3595279 is the number to call K C B W online

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at K C P W 35952790.0 R G at whatever
membership level you are comfortable.

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We would greatly appreciate the pledge of
financial support.

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It\'s 10, 10, midday Metro.
Next on K C W.

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It\'s 10 10.
Good morning.

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If you\'ve just tuned in, you\'re listening to
Midday metro heard here in the Salt Lake Valley

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on 88.3 and 105.3 F M and now throughout the
state of Utah on 50,000 watt 10,

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10 AM environmentalist and writer are two
labels that have been affixed to my guest this

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morning as well as curmudgeon, hermit and nimby
embraces all of the and his flag against what

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some call progress in a where he\'s been
publisher of the Canyon Country Zephyr since

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1989.
And he\'s in the studio with me now, Jim.

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Good morning.
Thanks for having me.

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I have to say that uh I\'ve been a fan of yours
for a long time.

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Well, thank you. I appreciate that.
The uh the Zephyr talk to me

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a little bit about that and how that came to be.

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I wanted to create a newspaper where people
from both sides could express an opinion but a

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paper where I was never afraid to express my
own opinion as well.

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You know, the slogan of this effort is
\"Hopelessly clinging to the past\",

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\"Hopelessly, clinging to the past\" sometimes
causes me more grief than humor because I think

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a lot of people misinterpret it.

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Your personality and your priorities start to
form when you\'re so little.

01:43.389 --> 01:48.379
There was one thing that happened when I was
five years old that I never forgot.

01:49.779 --> 01:52.930
We lived on this street.
It was called Glen Mead Road and it was on the

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edge of Louisville, Kentucky.

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And behind us was this big field.

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Then at the far end was this beautiful old
pre-Civil War home that was owned by this spooky

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old lady named Miss Hunt Singer and she hated
us running in her fields and she\'d chase us out.

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But there was all kinds of mystery and intrigue
about this field in the woods.

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And there were all these rumors that we kids
talked about that there was a hobo camp back in

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the big woods on the other side of the field.

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I, I just remember being so intrigued by the
notion that there were all these things that I

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didn\'t understand that were just out there
beyond those trees.

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I remember my father was shaving and I was in
the bathroom and I looked out the window and

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when I looked across the field, there was a
line of bulldozers and earth movers end to end

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across the other side of the field.

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And I turned to my dad and I said, well, what,
what, what are they out there for?

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But from that moment I was always troubled by
the sight of a bulldozer.

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It\'s from an early age, you start seeing how
things really do change constantly and nothing

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you look at is gonna be there forever.

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I wake up every morning, see another

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bulldozer coming right.

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My sacred land developer.

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Here we go.
The great adventure.

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Done, done, done.
Well, I read it in the paper.

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I heard it on the news.
Another Galleria coming soon to a neighborhood

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near you.
This land.

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What

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things that we made?

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We made it. Yeah.

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Go.
No, the river hill as a developer go

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great adventure brought to you by kicks.

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I always liked open space.

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When I was still back in Kentucky, we used to
go canoeing down the Salt river right through

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the middle of Fort Knox military reservation.
I would always get to the point.

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By the afternoon, I had to climb out of the
river and find a high spot.

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I was always running up the tops of Knowles,
anything I could find so I could get a view.

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And then when I was about 15, my family took
one of those traditional American vacations

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where you go 8000 miles in 11 days, we left
Louisville on an early morning and

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drove all day and drove through the night.
And when the sun came up,

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the next morning, we were, took, carry New
Mexico.

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And that was the first time I\'d seen the west
was when the sun came up that morning.

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So to the west open mode, let\'s take a trip
through.

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And I think from that moment, I always thought
that this is where I belonged and started

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waiting until I was old enough so I could come
back by myself and do all the things I really

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wanted to do around the clock around the world
on news,

05:57.459 --> 05:58.869
radio, 74.

05:59.489 --> 06:02.279
And these are the top stories we\'re following
at 5 30 Paris,

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the communists lamb back, President Nixon\'s
statements on Vietnam last night,

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I still went to, to college back in Kentucky.

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But every summer I\'d get in my car and head out
West.

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I\'m going, it\'s high noon here.
Mountain standard time and we\'ve just entered

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Big Wyoming, an epic drama of American history
unfolds before us as we look

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across these planes and wonder what pioneers
came across these planes.

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Hundreds of years ago, the cars are passing,
heading for points unknown in this great

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American West.

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Here comes a Ford station wagon.
Another fascinating idea heading towards

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Cheyenne ode perhaps for some unknown adventure
in the rodeo.

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And as I look to the West and as I look to the
north except that\'s the west and that\'s the

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north.
And as I look to the east and see the many cows

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eating grass, turn that thing off.

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Ok?
Rode out of this town and I\'m gonna take it if

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there ain\'t no way back.

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I don\'t really care.

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Shannon\'s like

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you start diving free.

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There\'s time singing his Utah song.

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You taught me everything.
I know.

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If you talk, no, you taught me everything I
know.

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And you taught me everything I know.

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And then after I graduated, that\'s when I
finally came out here in my Volkswagen bus and

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900 bucks.
And I just had to figure out a way to,

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to stay.

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I wandered into the uh natural Bridges visitor
center and there was a ranger there named Dave

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Evans who took one look at me and said
something like you look like you could use a

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cup of coffee partner or something like that.
And I was freezing to death.

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It was seven bucks a day as a volunteer, but it
sounded pretty good to me.

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I came here in 1975.
I was born in a log cabin in Kentucky.

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I came out here to become a hermit just like
that would work.

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Bye.
My Mormon neighbor here referred to me as being

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his grumpy neighbor.

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Really pissed me off the day I bought this
place.

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He saw me over here and he walked over and he
says, uh,

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that\'s a pretty small little place for you and
your family.

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I said, well, um, I don\'t have a family.

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What, what do you mean?

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I said, well, it\'s just me.

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Well, you don\'t have any kids?

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No, you don\'t have a wife.

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No, he kind of looked at me.

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I said, I\'ve got two cats which just really put
him over the top.

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You know, I remember drawing airplanes

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on the wallpaper in my bedroom when I was about
three.

09:37.280 --> 09:40.770
I think when I was in the second grade, I was
cartooning Santa Claus and trying to sell them

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to my classmates for a nickel or something.

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I guess any artist is just trying to interpret
the world as he sees it.

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I guess I use it most of all as a way of making
a statement about how I feel about things.

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That\'s the old movie theater and a Mormon guy
with 12 kids bought it and turned it into a

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house.
This guy, Tom Arnold, this is his Volkswagen

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Museum.
He calls it

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Carla.
How are you?

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It is quite a gathering place for people at the
post office.

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Usually between 10 and 11 in the morning,
there\'s so many people in this town that have

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gotten to go their own little ways and don\'t
run in large circles of friends.

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Sometimes the only time you see people is when
you go to the post office,

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there, been times when going to the post office
is the biggest social event of my day.

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Good God, that\'s new.

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All this is new.
There\'s a good smell going on right here.

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You just have to sort of look selectively when
you\'re in moab these days.

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Sort of squint and try to block out everything
that has been put in in the last 10 years to

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pretend 1985 or something.

11:58.619 --> 12:05.460
Get back to kind of the religious aspect of the
red rock desert and the Monkey Wrench gang.

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Kind of your friendship with some of the folks
who originally got there and started to write

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about this country.
Are you talking about that?

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I am.
Yeah, I uh discovered Ed Abbey before I even

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moved to Utah.
And I became one of those Ed Abbey groupies

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back in the mid seventies that carried desert
solitaire around in his hip pocket like a holy

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book.
You know, you know, you\'re 21, 22 years old and

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you\'ve got a lot of inarticulate thoughts about
how you feel about the world and who you wanna

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be and, and where you wanna go, but you can\'t
really quite define them because you\'re too

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young and stupid to really know when I read it.
It was enlightening to me.

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You\'re turning pages going. Yes.
That\'s exactly how I feel.

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And it\'s about Ed Abbey\'s time as a seasonal
ranger at what was then Arches National

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Monument in 1956 and 1957.
His relationship with the natural world that

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was changing rapidly before his very eyes and
his sort of defiance of the modern world and

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his hope that things could stay simple the way
they were when he found it there.

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But you realize as the book progresses that all
the things that he\'s writing about and that he

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loves so dearly are disappearing.

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There was a time when in my search for essences,
I concluded that the canyon land country has no

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heart.
I was wrong.

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The canyon lands did have a heart and that
heart was Glen Canyon and the golden flowing

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Colorado river.
In the summer of 1959, a friend and I made a

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float trip down to the lengths of Glen Canyon.

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I was one of the lucky few who did get to see
the canyon before it was emerged.

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Although I\'m not sure I was lucky.
It\'s a bittersweet memory.

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Well, first of all, most of us who are out
trying to restore Glen Canyon have never seen

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it.
Most people who remember Glen Canyon the way it

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was are, you know, in their sixties or
seventies?

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Now, this is a Firestone tire and rubber
salesman named Ken Slight from the early

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fifties.
He was a river runner.

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One of the few people that saw Glen Canyon and
really knew it well and was one of the few who

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really fought the bureau of reclamation when
they decided to flood Glen Canyon with Lake

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Powell Ken.
What you do walk up? Yeah.

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You combed your hair, would you?
Well, yeah, I heard you.

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You bring a little lady, Ken.
I\'ve never seen your hair comb.

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Yeah.
The story goes that Ken met Abby at Lee\'s ferry

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on the Colorado.
Abby was the seasonal park ranger there.

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And they just became friends almost from the
moment they met,

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I started down there in 1950 six, took hundreds
of hundreds of trips.

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So I elongated my life down there in the canyon.

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I don\'t know what heaven is like, but you can
picture it in your mind.

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Music and the whole thing and all the beautiful
things all around you.

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And that\'s what it was in this voyage of about
150 miles.

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In 10 days.
Our only motive power and all that we needed

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was the current of the river.
The trip could be and was made by all sorts of

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amateurs, boy scouts, campfire, girls, school
teachers, students,

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little old ladies in inner tubes.

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I happened to be down there running when the
reservoir was filling and saw all those temples,

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all those cathedrals being buried by the
reservoir.

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It was really hard to get over that, seeing how
evil some people could be to the something so

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beautiful and we begged them and we, we did a
little praying,

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we did everything we could to to stop it, but
we couldn\'t stop it.

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The bureau of reclamation in 1946 was proposing
to build a series of dams from one end of the

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Colorado river to the other.

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So that when they were done, there wouldn\'t be
one free flowing mile river at all.

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I of yeah, it\'s true.

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You old days are

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I take a dim view of dams.
I am poorly impressed by concrete aggregates

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and statistics in the cubic tons.

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But in this weakness, I\'m not alone where I
belong to that ever growing number of Americans

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who have become aware that a fully
industrialized, thoroughly urbanized,

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elegantly computerized social system is not
suitable for human habitation.

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The difference between the present reservoir
and the original Grand Canyon is like the

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difference between death and life.
Glen Canyon was alive.

17:32.219 --> 17:33.839
Lake Paul was a graveyard.

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I see this as an invasion.

17:46.410 --> 17:51.439
I feel no kinship with that fantastic structure
over there.

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No sympathy with it whatsoever.

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I think we\'re morally justified to resort to
whatever means are necessary in order to defend

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our land from destruction.

18:02.270 --> 18:08.989
Yeah, I would advocate to sabotage subversion
as a as a last

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resort when political needs fail.

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And of course, Abby caught all kinds of hell
for that because people started trying to

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equate his message with terrorism.
But I think Abby was just having some fun

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expressing his disdain for the forces in the
world that were changing it so rapidly.

18:28.380 --> 18:35.189
I think Abby just helped to clarify a lot of
those feelings that I had about the West that I

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wanted to be a part of it and, uh, you know,
try to be a part of protecting it.

18:44.000 --> 18:46.510
And somehow I got involved in all this
environmental activism,

18:46.520 --> 18:49.750
which was fairly, I mean, I never felt radical
at the time.

18:49.760 --> 18:55.640
It just felt kind of goofy and fun and I don\'t
think we were taking ourselves too seriously.

18:55.650 --> 18:58.020
Although when you\'re that young, you have a
tendency to do that,

18:58.030 --> 19:01.800
I guess.
But I, I was always bewildered that I survived

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as long as I did in the park service because I
was a cartoonist for Earth first,

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which was putting out books about monkey
wrenching and things.

19:09.119 --> 19:12.719
And at the same time, I was a federal law
enforcement officer.

19:12.729 --> 19:15.900
As a matter of fact, there was one year when
James Watt,

19:15.910 --> 19:21.560
who was the secretary of the Interior under
Reagan and who I had drawn just unbelievably

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gross cartoons of just terrible cartoons that
I\'m almost embarrassed to talk about.

19:26.579 --> 19:32.030
But Watt announced that he was coming to Arches.
Well, first he went to Glen Canyon Dam the

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night before Watt arrived, my Earth first
friend showed up at my trailer and sort of said,

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just don\'t tell me what you\'re gonna do, but I
know you\'re gonna do something.

19:48.540 --> 19:54.859
They had taken 200 ft of black Visqueen and cut
it and taped it together.

19:54.949 --> 19:58.839
So that from a distance, if it was unfurled
over the dam itself,

19:58.849 --> 20:01.140
it would look like a giant crack in the dam.

20:01.829 --> 20:06.040
And I watched them tearing down the wall.
Last night,

20:08.010 --> 20:13.800
there were flickers and flashes filtering
through C I

20:14.050 --> 20:18.859
industrialization, urbanization and
militarization of the American West continues.

20:18.869 --> 20:23.680
More dams are proposed, more coal burning and
nuclear power plants projected more strip

20:23.689 --> 20:27.750
mining of our mountains, clear cutting of our
forests, the misuse of water,

20:28.109 --> 20:29.719
the abuse of the land.

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Meanwhile, what to do?

20:32.349 --> 20:36.010
Earth first oppose the destruction of our
homeland.

20:36.079 --> 20:39.099
And if opposition is not enough, we must resist.

20:39.520 --> 20:44.699
And if resistance is not enough, then subvert
better

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pose, resists a Burt delay until the Empire
itself begins to fall apart.

20:52.920 --> 20:56.300
And until that happens, share in the beauty of
wilderness, friendship,

20:56.310 --> 21:03.089
love and the common effort to save what we love
do this and we\'ll be strong and bold and happy.

21:03.369 --> 21:07.819
We will outlive our enemies.
And as my good old grandmother used to say,

21:07.829 --> 21:09.760
we\'ll live to piss on their grave.

21:13.319 --> 21:19.989
Thank you.
That the head law enforcement

21:20.000 --> 21:24.109
officer down at Glen Canyon National Recreation
Area was a guy named Jack Holland.

21:24.359 --> 21:26.699
And I know that he commented to other people.
You know,

21:26.709 --> 21:29.619
how does this guy get away with this?
You know,

21:29.630 --> 21:31.709
he\'s with these radicals.

21:32.140 --> 21:35.410
And the thing was that, you know, I, I, I did a
good, I was a good ranger.

21:35.420 --> 21:38.349
I didn\'t uh you know, do anything.

21:38.689 --> 21:40.599
Well, never mind.

21:52.229 --> 21:55.520
I had done this drawing of Glen Canyon dam
blown up

21:59.469 --> 22:01.630
and on the jacket cover of the monkey Wrench
gang.

22:01.640 --> 22:07.319
It said that Edward Abbey lives near Wolf Hole,
Arizona and I found Wolf Hole on the map.

22:08.469 --> 22:12.660
It did look like much of a town, but it was out
on the Arizona strip north of the north rim of

22:12.670 --> 22:16.239
the Grand Canyon.
And so I journeyed all, all the way over there

22:16.250 --> 22:20.930
and, uh, there\'s nothing there and, you know,
you sort of figured out pretty quickly.

22:20.939 --> 22:24.560
That was one more of Ed Abbey\'s jokes.

22:27.719 --> 22:31.140
Just a month later.
I was at Natural Bridges seeing if I could get

22:31.150 --> 22:36.709
on as a volunteer or something for the winter.
And it turned out that they all knew Ed and

22:36.719 --> 22:38.060
that Abby lived in.

22:39.130 --> 22:43.280
So I ended up giving Abby this drawing one
night when he was playing poker and he was,

22:43.290 --> 22:45.589
it was another one of those seminal moments,
you know,

22:45.599 --> 22:48.609
because Abby was just this guy on a pedestal to
me.

22:48.619 --> 22:52.930
A couple months later, the park decided to hire
me on as a regular seasonal ranger.

22:53.270 --> 22:56.310
Well, I went down to Moab one day to check my
mail and,

22:56.319 --> 23:00.040
uh, there was this letter from E P Dutton
publishers in New York.

23:00.369 --> 23:04.439
In fact, I was putting on my uniform when I
heard the door open of the trailer and it was

23:04.449 --> 23:07.540
Abby and he stuck his head in the door and he
said, uh,

23:07.550 --> 23:09.989
did you get a letter from E P Dutton?

23:11.280 --> 23:13.550
Yeah, I would, you know, I had no idea what it
was about.

23:13.560 --> 23:17.979
Well, it was typical Abby, you know, I\'d given
him this drawing and he had sent a copy of it

23:17.989 --> 23:22.060
to his publishers and encouraged them to use me
as his illustrator.

23:23.160 --> 23:25.810
Didn\'t wanna say anything to me until he knew
it was gonna happen.

23:26.079 --> 23:28.849
You know.
So I wouldn\'t get my hopes up, I guess in just

23:28.859 --> 23:34.430
a short period of time, I\'d gone from sleeping
in the back of my Volkswagen bus to uh being a

23:34.439 --> 23:38.709
seasonal ranger at Arches and getting a chance
to illustrate Abby\'s books.

23:54.689 --> 24:00.430
I started realizing at the time that uh Moab
could really use a sort of semi serious

24:00.439 --> 24:04.900
newspaper.
So I finally ended up with the idea of starting

24:04.910 --> 24:05.939
my own newspaper.

24:08.369 --> 24:11.579
I can see the sun sneaking up over the cloud

24:15.479 --> 24:18.439
and last night, a shooting star exploded right
before.

24:19.579 --> 24:26.489
See, and I made up my mind that the day is the
last day I\'m ever gonna

24:26.500 --> 24:28.739
kiss anybody\'s ass on this earth.

24:37.339 --> 24:39.569
From that moment.
I thought of a name.

24:39.579 --> 24:41.729
I, I just really thought this thing was gonna
work.

24:50.329 --> 24:53.010
Oh shit.
No, fuck.

24:53.020 --> 24:54.739
It\'s fucked up.
God damn it.

24:54.750 --> 24:55.880
I can\'t believe this happened.

24:56.359 --> 25:01.800
Oh man, I remember I called up Abby and told
him what I was gonna do and he was really

25:01.810 --> 25:05.520
enthusiastic, you know, he was always
enthusiastic about something like that.

25:06.050 --> 25:12.339
And uh sometime in February, I got a manila
envelope from Ed and there was a story inside

25:12.349 --> 25:14.229
called Hard Times in Santa Fe.

25:14.719 --> 25:20.760
And then on March 14th 1989 I drove to Cortez
Colorado to get the paper printed.

25:20.770 --> 25:26.829
And when I got back that afternoon, I was maybe
in the middle of unloading the first box of

25:26.839 --> 25:30.180
Zeph out of the back of my car.
When a friend of mine pulled up and said that

25:30.189 --> 25:31.430
Ed had died that morning.

25:35.069 --> 25:40.449
It just seemed like the strongest voice in the
American West was lost on the day that I

25:40.459 --> 25:43.520
started to try to create this little voice.

25:44.660 --> 25:49.439
May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome,
dangerous.

25:49.449 --> 25:54.930
Leading to the most amazing view.
May your mountains rise into and above the

25:54.939 --> 25:56.000
clouds?

25:56.310 --> 26:01.500
May your rivers flow without end meandering
through pastoral valleys,

26:01.510 --> 26:07.699
tinkling with bells and down from there into a
desert of red rock,

26:07.709 --> 26:14.130
blue mesas and down down again into a deep vast
ancient unknown

26:14.140 --> 26:20.180
chasm where something strange and more
beautiful and more full of wonder than your

26:20.189 --> 26:24.770
deepest dreams.
Waits for you beyond the next turning of the

26:24.780 --> 26:29.130
canyon walls so long.
Uh Thank you.

26:30.760 --> 26:37.109
A man don\'t feel known I see is,

26:38.119 --> 26:42.089
it\'s always hard for me to believe that Abby
never saw one issue of this paper because he

26:42.099 --> 26:45.130
always seems like he\'s a part of every issue
that I put down.

26:46.280 --> 26:47.280
I can\'t,

26:53.880 --> 26:58.489
I think maybe I talk about him too much in my
paper, but I don\'t ever do it for any other

26:58.500 --> 27:00.810
reason and I just don\'t want anybody to forget
him

27:09.849 --> 27:09.989
to

27:18.079 --> 27:19.650
God.
This is a long time. Ago.

27:24.140 --> 27:25.839
There\'s the original cover.

27:27.119 --> 27:30.079
God, I look like a, I look like Saddam Hussein.

27:43.530 --> 27:46.140
I just always thought that was a beautiful word.
It\'s a,

27:46.150 --> 27:49.500
a warm breeze, a warm western breeze.

27:51.270 --> 27:54.079
And of course, it also can suggest that I\'m
full of hot air.

27:55.630 --> 28:00.930
We advocate everything and nothing.
It\'s either advocating or against practically

28:00.939 --> 28:02.500
everything.
I think

28:09.339 --> 28:13.170
some guy once did a review on this after he
said it was full of writers who were either

28:13.180 --> 28:15.859
bone headed radicals or radical bone heads.

28:16.109 --> 28:21.920
And I thought that was perfect.
You know, when I started this effort,

28:21.930 --> 28:26.709
it was really intended to be a local newspaper
every month.

28:26.719 --> 28:33.060
For seven years, I did interviews with the
governing bodies of the city and county think I

28:33.069 --> 28:37.849
ultimately had more effect fixing potholes than
I did changing the destiny,

28:47.770 --> 28:52.680
Grand County in the late 80s and early 90s was
really an amazing place.

28:52.689 --> 28:57.939
There was so much activism in that county,
everybody was involved,

28:57.949 --> 28:59.699
everybody was informed.

29:00.219 --> 29:03.369
That\'s probably more than anything why I wanted
to start this effort.

29:03.380 --> 29:07.750
Because I thought there were a lot of people
who wanted to be involved in what was happening,

29:07.760 --> 29:10.449
who just needed more information in order to do
it

29:16.329 --> 29:17.630
and you banish.

29:28.390 --> 29:30.719
There were some big issues in the early
nineties.

29:30.729 --> 29:36.140
There was a proposal to build a $100 million
highway from interstate 70 over the Book Cliffs

29:36.150 --> 29:39.189
to Vernal.
The Book Cliffs Highway would constitute the

29:39.199 --> 29:44.329
biggest construction project in 20 years.
Yet critics say the deal is being put together

29:44.339 --> 29:47.839
hastily.
We have other problems here that many people in

29:47.849 --> 29:52.630
this county think that money can be used for
Jim style says it\'s not tourism.

29:52.640 --> 29:56.645
The county board is trying to stimulate its oil
and gas production.

29:56.655 --> 30:02.214
County commissioner Dave Knutson says oil and
gas is Grand County\'s only hope for an economic

30:02.224 --> 30:04.194
rebound.
You want to take care of the goose that\'s

30:04.204 --> 30:08.064
laying the golden egg.
The road will enable those companies to get in

30:08.074 --> 30:09.925
there and I think it will be a shot in the arm
for them,

30:09.935 --> 30:14.824
but Ken stands to benefit if the road is built
and more gas companies move in.

30:14.854 --> 30:20.204
What\'s got most citizens riled up is that the
new road is more than 75 miles from Moab.

30:20.895 --> 30:22.194
What are you writing the next time?

30:22.564 --> 30:26.170
I don\'t know you all your deadlines in three
weeks.

30:26.180 --> 30:30.660
I just thought I\'d tell you three weeks, three
weeks, I\'ll start writing.

30:31.750 --> 30:35.420
See a shadow.
What, 8 More weeks of winter?

30:36.189 --> 30:39.160
Yeah.
What are you gonna pave this damn place,

30:39.170 --> 30:46.089
Ken a place

30:46.099 --> 30:52.430
get lost right through there up there on the
other side of Arches where the Book Cliffs is

30:52.439 --> 30:56.630
and that was where they wanted to put a road
all the way from to.

30:57.530 --> 31:03.119
And, uh, the was very instrumental, Jim Styles
is very instrumental in,

31:03.130 --> 31:09.339
uh, stopping that road until he put out the
fact they probably gone through with it.

31:09.349 --> 31:13.579
If uh had been for your, your initiative on
that.

31:15.859 --> 31:21.910
It all culminated in 1992 with a referendum to
actually change Grand County\'s form of

31:21.920 --> 31:26.569
government just so we could throw these
bastards out and stop the highways.

31:31.579 --> 31:35.520
There was just a real sense that people in
Grand County wanted to control their own

31:35.530 --> 31:38.410
destiny.
You know, there was really a sense that we

31:38.420 --> 31:40.069
might not end up like every other town

31:51.699 --> 31:57.739
when I started the Zephyr, I wanted it to be
something that was very honest that people

31:57.750 --> 32:01.849
would look at and maybe not agree with, but at
least respect.

32:02.319 --> 32:04.790
And I think that\'s what I\'ve always tried to do
with it.

32:04.869 --> 32:10.160
Not be afraid to express an opinion, be willing
to let people who didn\'t agree with me have a

32:10.170 --> 32:15.989
say if I have one good quality, it\'s that when
someone calls me on something that was bullshit,

32:16.199 --> 32:22.540
I think I\'m willing to admit that they were
probably right dear

32:22.550 --> 32:25.390
styles.
I\'d like to thank you and congratulate you on

32:25.400 --> 32:29.459
the excellent job you\'re doing with the paper.
It\'s a breath of fresh air to receive it each

32:29.469 --> 32:32.410
month. Continued.
Good luck and Happy trails.

32:32.420 --> 32:35.390
Jerry S smog Lake City, Utah.

32:37.329 --> 32:43.959
Well, J S as usual, you are articulate well
versed and full of crap between your

32:43.969 --> 32:49.030
desire to have the government control all lands,
your problems with overpopulation and now your

32:49.040 --> 32:54.069
dislike of private property, I would have to
conclude that you advocate communism.

32:54.489 --> 32:57.939
I don\'t give a damn if you can find anywhere
away from the crowds.

32:57.949 --> 33:02.709
You are living in a place of your own design.
You fight and fight to get land set aside as

33:02.719 --> 33:06.869
wilderness parks and monuments.
Then you cry when people come to visit them in

33:06.880 --> 33:10.060
ever increasing numbers.
Kind of ironic, isn\'t it?

33:10.119 --> 33:13.400
Have a nice day name withheld by request.

33:19.849 --> 33:24.709
After seven years of doing the paper as a
monthly, I started distributing the paper in

33:24.719 --> 33:28.459
Salt Lake in western Colorado, different small
towns in Utah.

33:28.719 --> 33:34.660
And I increased the circulation from about 2000
a month to 15,000 every two months.

33:35.119 --> 33:41.920
You know, when I did that, I did focus the
paper more on regional issues is always sort of

33:41.930 --> 33:46.660
the core of the paper.
But I don\'t bog down in the minutia of day to

33:46.670 --> 33:50.400
day government and interviewing county
commissioners like I used to

33:56.089 --> 34:00.979
for those who have not seen this effort though.
It\'s not exactly a newspaper as we know it.

34:00.989 --> 34:07.890
Part of it is you are a very talented
cartoonist and caricatures of every advertiser

34:07.900 --> 34:10.479
are in every ad in this effort.

34:10.689 --> 34:13.629
That\'s right.
I wanted the advertisements to be something

34:13.639 --> 34:18.590
more than something you glossed over because I
wanted my advertisers to stay with me and I

34:18.600 --> 34:21.979
always thought advertising was so boring and
humorless.

34:22.449 --> 34:27.510
So I got the idea of caricaturing on my
advertisers and even sometimes creating some

34:27.520 --> 34:28.850
interplay between them.

34:29.550 --> 34:31.830
I guess it\'s worked out well.
But I do know,

34:31.840 --> 34:34.020
it\'s the only newspaper I know where some
people tell me,

34:34.030 --> 34:36.000
they look at the ads before they read the
stories.

34:50.030 --> 34:54.620
One of my longest advertisers is Riverside
plumbing but trying to come up with something

34:54.629 --> 34:58.939
funny for a plumbing ad.
Every single issue can drive you absolutely

34:58.949 --> 34:59.949
crazy.

35:17.159 --> 35:22.620
When you\'re cartooning somebody who\'s paying
you never accentuate their flaws.

35:22.969 --> 35:25.260
It very dangerous.
Very bad.

35:41.350 --> 35:44.330
When you\'re a cartoonist you see the flaws in
everybody.

35:44.360 --> 35:48.520
I see somebody and I can actually start
imagining cartooning them in my head,

35:48.979 --> 35:52.969
what you would do and what features they have
that are particularly interesting.

35:54.169 --> 35:59.070
Unfortunately, sometimes people don\'t
appreciate the fact that you see the features

35:59.080 --> 36:02.540
that in the, in the cartoon and then they don\'t
like it.

36:16.919 --> 36:22.219
I know how gloomy I can get and intense I can
get about some environmental issues and things.

36:22.370 --> 36:26.729
And I think I realized early on that if there
wasn\'t some comic relief in this paper,

36:26.739 --> 36:28.449
it was just gonna be too damn grim.

36:30.159 --> 36:34.850
Over the years.
I have learned about timing and overkill,

36:34.919 --> 36:39.129
no matter how important an issue is, you can
beat it to death to the point where nobody

36:39.139 --> 36:41.800
gives a damn anymore.
They just want you to shut up and,

36:41.810 --> 36:43.330
you know, go on to something else.

37:07.929 --> 37:11.899
I think it\'s also important to show that
environmentalists have a sense of humor because

37:11.909 --> 37:16.659
there\'s a lot of environmentalists I know who I
would think maybe don\'t have a sense of humor,

37:16.669 --> 37:22.820
you know, I, I mean, I\'ve got friends whether
it\'s environmental stuff or social issues or

37:22.830 --> 37:28.659
whatever, they\'re just so damn grim and earnest
and take themselves so seriously that their

37:28.669 --> 37:34.820
passion is almost lost by, by their obsession
and ends up being really counterproductive.

37:35.530 --> 37:38.500
Believe me, I\'m somebody that\'s learned that
one the hard way.

37:38.510 --> 37:43.760
I, I always taking things way too seriously.
And even at this point in my life,

37:43.770 --> 37:49.100
I still have to keep reminding myself, you know,
I\'ve done some landscapes and things like that

37:49.110 --> 37:52.040
and I\'ve painted some, but I always come back
to cartooning,

37:52.050 --> 37:55.399
I think just because it\'s the easiest way for
me to vent.

37:58.689 --> 37:59.699
I think that\'s it.

38:02.489 --> 38:03.489
No, no,

38:20.100 --> 38:26.750
putting the zephyr together was always
unbelievably simple in terms of the technology

38:26.760 --> 38:30.550
I use.
Basically, I bought a hand Waxer which is what

38:30.560 --> 38:33.949
holds pages together.
And the old cut and paste days,

38:33.959 --> 38:39.060
you run a thin layer of hot wax over the back
of a piece of typewriter paper and you cut it

38:39.070 --> 38:42.090
out with a pair of scissors and you lay it on a
grid board.

38:43.139 --> 38:46.149
People say, don\'t you build these pages on the
screen on a computer screen?

38:46.159 --> 38:51.000
And I don\'t, I just, I format the columns, you
know, and the margins that they\'re supposed to

38:51.010 --> 38:54.939
be to fit on the page.
And I kind of met with a pair of scissors and

38:54.949 --> 38:57.399
just start filling in the blanks.
Basically, you know,

38:57.409 --> 38:58.989
it\'s filling in the blanks.

39:02.500 --> 39:07.689
You know, I\'ve had this fear for 16 years that
one of these days I\'m gonna pick this thing up

39:07.699 --> 39:11.949
and poke myself right in the eye.
Every time I pick up this exacto knife,

39:12.300 --> 39:15.550
it\'s almost like a, you know, a phobia, a fear
of.

39:17.080 --> 39:20.530
Yeah, if you\'re an exact or knife on the
eyeball, I guess is what you\'d call it.

39:26.929 --> 39:27.929
That\'s it.

39:36.260 --> 39:41.270
I think the more complicated life becomes, the
more unpleasant it is.

39:41.280 --> 39:43.679
And I guess maybe that\'s why I keep my paper so
simple.

39:43.689 --> 39:46.879
Nothing else is simple except how I put my
paper together.

39:47.209 --> 39:50.790
And when people come at me and tell me I should
get a new computer and I should learn how to

39:50.800 --> 39:57.010
import ads onto a screen.
I just, my mind just turns to sludge and I just

39:57.020 --> 40:01.820
think how comforting it is when I have my hand
Waxer and it\'s just me and my hand Waxer and a

40:01.830 --> 40:08.280
pair of scissors, you know, independent
newspaper.

40:08.500 --> 40:13.010
If it\'s really gonna be independent, almost has
to run like this because if you start hiring

40:13.169 --> 40:18.979
two or three people in salary positions and you
go out and the first thing you do is spend a

40:18.989 --> 40:21.610
whole lot of money on computer equipment and
things.

40:21.870 --> 40:25.969
If you\'re already in debt when you start, I
don\'t think you\'re gonna make it.

40:26.409 --> 40:30.850
The only way you can really make it work is to
really keep it simple and do most of the work

40:30.860 --> 40:35.969
yourself. Ok.
I\'ll try it again.

40:38.750 --> 40:39.860
I hate this Sprinter.

40:40.530 --> 40:44.610
I think it has some kind of an evil personality
and it\'s trying to torture me.

40:45.189 --> 40:48.370
I hadn\'t changed the ink cartridge in this
thing in about seven years.

40:48.590 --> 40:54.270
And my subscribers were actually sending me
five extra bucks just so I replaced the ribbon

40:57.189 --> 41:00.070
and the only reason I didn\'t do it is because I
didn\'t know how,

41:00.080 --> 41:06.669
you know, as unbelievable as that may seem, I
don\'t see myself fitting in it at all.

41:06.969 --> 41:10.689
I mean, I\'ve never belonged to a Utah Press
Association.

41:11.000 --> 41:13.199
I\'ve never gone to a convention.

41:13.669 --> 41:18.709
I don\'t know any other publishers and I don\'t
even know the lingo.

41:18.959 --> 41:22.350
I say, you know, I\'m going, I\'m going to press
on Tuesday or something like that,

41:22.360 --> 41:27.270
which sounds pretty cool, but I\'m just sort of
in some weird place.

41:28.979 --> 41:30.239
Oh, the joy.

41:30.629 --> 41:35.060
That\'s it.
What\'s the matter of?

41:35.070 --> 41:37.239
Oh, that\'s stupid. Stoop.
Come on.

41:37.570 --> 41:40.739
Come on, kitty.
She\'s not really stupid.

41:40.750 --> 41:47.199
She\'s extremely cautious before one issue goes
to press.

41:47.899 --> 41:50.219
I\'m already thinking about what\'s gonna be in
the next one.

41:50.479 --> 41:54.550
The one that\'s about to come out now is about
Glen Canyon again.

41:54.560 --> 41:59.810
And what I wanted it to highlight was the fact
that after 40 years,

41:59.820 --> 42:04.110
a place in Glen Canyon called Cathedral in the
Desert is out of the water

42:06.270 --> 42:10.560
restoring Glen Canyon is the ultimate lost
cause, you know,

42:10.870 --> 42:15.139
but recently it\'s almost started to feel as if
it has real legs to it.

42:15.149 --> 42:19.510
And that maybe with real help from mother
nature, it might happen.

42:20.949 --> 42:25.810
But it was always one of these dreams that were
sort of ridiculous and people who heard us talk

42:25.820 --> 42:28.560
about it thought we were nuts.
And then somebody said,

42:28.570 --> 42:30.600
do you know who this doctor Ingebretson is?

42:31.129 --> 42:32.699
And I\'d never heard of him.
They said, well,

42:32.709 --> 42:37.070
he\'s this doctor up in Salt Lake City and he
started this organization to drain Lake Poll.

42:37.750 --> 42:40.040
He keeps trying to convert me to become a
Mormon.

42:40.419 --> 42:44.320
And that\'s where this Mormons and Heathens for
a better Utah idea came along.

42:44.330 --> 42:48.500
We reaching our sort of charter members.
We wanted both ends of the political spectrum

42:48.510 --> 42:51.030
to talk to each other.
So we figured what better way than to have an

42:51.040 --> 42:54.320
organization that is sort of composed of those
kinds of people.

42:54.330 --> 43:00.510
So we had me the heathen and Rich, the Mormon
and then Ken Slight is the Mormon heathen who

43:00.520 --> 43:06.340
bridges the gap between the two ends of the
spectrum that works too styles is he\'s not

43:06.350 --> 43:10.010
going to like this term, the religious right of
the environmental movement.

43:10.020 --> 43:14.580
He is the pus and he keeps us honest, he gets
people upset,

43:14.750 --> 43:21.570
he gets people nervous and some people don\'t
like to talk to him because he is Pesky at them

43:21.580 --> 43:26.709
and picks at them and he\'s not afraid to call
what he believes.

43:26.719 --> 43:28.679
And sometimes that upsets people.

43:30.649 --> 43:33.729
Pesky, both friends are rude.

43:35.600 --> 43:42.459
Ok?
I think the majority of people who even come

43:42.469 --> 43:44.739
down here have regrets about this.

43:45.020 --> 43:48.100
I think that they kind of feel that there\'s
something wrong.

43:48.260 --> 43:52.919
It has such ramifications.
It originally motivated the entire

43:52.929 --> 43:57.169
environmental movement.
The battle for the Colorado River dams brought

43:57.179 --> 44:03.919
the environmental movement together where we\'re
standing right now until about two

44:03.929 --> 44:07.229
years ago, was under a 100 ft of water.
But a drought,

44:07.239 --> 44:13.149
a six year drought in the West brought the
water level of Lake Powell down by about 150 ft.

44:13.159 --> 44:19.669
I guess this is all the sediment that the
Colorado river carried with it from upstream

44:19.979 --> 44:24.899
and has been depositing here since the lake was
created in the mid sixties

44:28.590 --> 44:32.179
for a long time.
It was, we can\'t let this happen again.

44:32.399 --> 44:37.889
And now that battle has actually moved a step
farther to where not only should this never

44:37.899 --> 44:44.860
happen again, we should fix what happened here
40 years ago are these people are

44:44.870 --> 44:48.330
getting nasty.
They, they watch us like a hawk and they uh

44:48.340 --> 44:52.020
they have the government after its on every
single level.

44:52.030 --> 44:54.469
It\'s kind of like what Gandhi said first, they
laugh at you,

44:54.479 --> 44:57.899
then they ignore you and they fight you and now
they\'re fighting.

44:57.909 --> 45:03.159
It said every little picky little thing that\'s
like we went from being nature lovers to

45:03.169 --> 45:07.899
environmentalists and then when we became damn
environmentalists, we knew we were really doing

45:07.909 --> 45:11.620
something, right?
Bulldozers are halfway through their work

45:11.629 --> 45:16.290
despite momentary interruptions by one man who
this morning stood in their way

45:19.270 --> 45:22.090
with the tremendous power of a bulldozer.
At each end,

45:22.100 --> 45:24.449
a chain is dragged across the land.

45:24.739 --> 45:28.080
Environmentalists fought to stop this and fail.

45:28.979 --> 45:32.870
There was an incident that occurred near Moab
that was transforming for me,

45:33.020 --> 45:38.070
the B L M had decided to chain a large area of
juniper.

45:38.510 --> 45:41.590
It\'s usually done so you can have grazing for
cattle.

45:41.600 --> 45:46.469
And on the day that they were starting the
chaining, there were some great photo ops for

45:46.479 --> 45:50.669
the TV stations because you had a bunch of us
environmentalists trying to stop it.

45:50.959 --> 45:55.290
And then you had some old cowboys who came up
to defend the blm\'s practice.

45:55.399 --> 45:59.879
I think it\'s BS, they\'re over protecting the
thing and it\'s,

45:59.889 --> 46:06.560
it\'s communist, Communistic ideas.
You people do have your militants who

46:06.570 --> 46:09.100
don\'t, don\'t kid me.
I\'ve had threats,

46:10.129 --> 46:13.600
stereotyping ranchers and say all of you have
the same mentality.

46:13.610 --> 46:18.449
I know there\'s some ranchers who care about the
land and some who don\'t after the cameras were

46:18.459 --> 46:21.120
turned off.
A couple of these old cowboys hung around.

46:21.129 --> 46:24.899
And so had I, and I walked up to one of these
guys and I said,

46:24.959 --> 46:28.679
I can understand some positions you take
sometimes.

46:28.689 --> 46:34.139
But this one, I just don\'t get, I don\'t
understand why you could possibly think this is

46:34.149 --> 46:36.969
a good idea.
He kind of looked around to make sure nobody

46:36.979 --> 46:40.209
was listening and he said, well, tell you the
truth.

46:40.219 --> 46:44.310
I don\'t really like it too much myself.
But he says I\'ll be damned if I\'m gonna side

46:44.320 --> 46:46.500
with you environmentalists on anything right
there.

46:46.510 --> 46:51.370
I, I realized that people grasp the, the
ideology that they think fits them best and

46:51.379 --> 46:55.080
cling to it and if it means that you always
have to hate environmentalists,

46:55.090 --> 46:58.649
even if you agree with them, sometimes you\'re
never gonna tell anybody.

46:58.699 --> 47:02.030
And I found it was the same way on the other
side, people who call themselves

47:02.040 --> 47:05.715
environmentalist always complained about public
lands ranching,

47:05.725 --> 47:11.044
but really didn\'t want all the ALF alpha fields
to disappear and be turned into condominium

47:11.054 --> 47:15.425
developments.
I, I think the people who are ideologically

47:15.435 --> 47:20.955
entrenched are probably more so now than ever.
But I think there are a lot of people who are

47:20.965 --> 47:27.679
just sick of the animosity and would like to
have a chat and find out if there\'s

47:27.689 --> 47:32.820
something they have in common.
I, I try to remember that not to let my

47:32.830 --> 47:37.280
differences of opinion politically or
environmentally affect my friendships.

47:40.659 --> 47:45.929
In fact, one of the lessons that I learned out
of those early years was that I really could be

47:46.040 --> 47:49.820
friends with people whose political
philosophies.

47:49.830 --> 47:56.620
I absolutely abhorred. Hello.
One of my best friends is

47:56.629 --> 48:00.540
Mark Stein.
Oh, not you, please, not you sten.

48:00.659 --> 48:01.699
What do you want?

48:01.989 --> 48:06.409
And his father was Charlie Steam, who was the
Uranium King.

48:09.250 --> 48:14.439
And he had this theory that you would find
uranium where all the experts said it couldn\'t

48:14.449 --> 48:17.479
be found.
He and his kids and his wife were all together

48:17.489 --> 48:22.250
and living in Tarpaper shacks and he was having
nothing but bad luck and he finally was down to

48:22.260 --> 48:26.290
his last cent and came in with some core
samples that he\'d taken.

48:26.659 --> 48:29.679
A guy walked by with a Geiger counter.
The thing just went off the scale.

48:36.050 --> 48:39.939
That\'s where the uranium boom really began was
with Charlie Steam.

48:56.000 --> 49:01.870
As every youngster learns today there is
nothing new or mysterious about radiation.

49:02.250 --> 49:06.810
The human body withstands continued exposure to
small radiation doses.

49:07.429 --> 49:13.500
It is when the rate of delivery is high or the
total dose in a short period is large,

49:13.510 --> 49:19.110
that recovery cannot keep pace with damage
exposure of the whole body in a short time to

49:19.120 --> 49:23.510
600 or more.
Rankins of radiation will almost certainly be

49:23.520 --> 49:27.100
fatal.
Why is it over?

49:29.100 --> 49:30.370
Decided to act?

49:32.000 --> 49:35.169
You sound depressed.
It\'s almost like we\'ve done a role reversal,

49:35.179 --> 49:35.800
isn\'t it?
Mark?

49:36.199 --> 49:37.520
All right.
Well, I\'ll talk to you soon.

49:37.530 --> 49:40.189
Hang in there.
It\'s solely litigation.

49:41.159 --> 49:43.989
All right, I\'ll talk to you later. Bye.
That was Mark,

49:44.000 --> 49:48.639
who\'s about to get sued by the EPA for uh some
kind of a mining violation.

49:48.649 --> 49:55.570
He\'s allegedly committed two or three

49:55.580 --> 49:59.340
years ago.
I talked to Mark about writing the definitive

49:59.350 --> 50:04.540
family version of the Steen story.
So Mark did a three part series for me on his

50:04.550 --> 50:09.510
dad, how he found the uranium and some of the
events that occurred after he got really

50:09.520 --> 50:15.610
stinking rich.
Then the uranium market started to collapse,

50:15.620 --> 50:21.489
I guess in the late 60s and by the early 80s it
was gone,

50:31.020 --> 50:35.110
there are rumors all over the place that the
uranium industry is about to make a dramatic

50:35.120 --> 50:38.969
comeback.
There\'s a lot of survey stakes being placed out

50:38.979 --> 50:44.419
there right now on old mines that were
considered used up 25 years ago,

50:44.429 --> 50:48.090
but which you are getting serious consideration
for reopening now.

50:51.290 --> 50:57.379
So those minor there, there\'s some, yeah.
Um They have it all sold out.

50:58.050 --> 51:02.189
Some of them have some of them are still
hopelessly clinging to the past.

51:02.199 --> 51:06.590
Probably.
Are you still hope to, to your ma said?

51:07.129 --> 51:10.929
Yeah, I\'m glad you asked me that when I talk
about hopelessly clinging to the past.

51:11.340 --> 51:16.649
I\'m definitely talking about a quieter time and
a simpler time away from the way the world

51:16.659 --> 51:17.800
seems to be moving.

51:20.310 --> 51:25.790
But now, I mean, I think the paper is just more
of a chronicle of what\'s happening and how it

51:25.800 --> 51:32.370
has changed it ultimately, for me, at least
it\'s a way to find Kindred spirits in this

51:32.379 --> 51:37.370
world which are getting to be few and far
between her.

51:38.659 --> 51:41.030
No, you don\'t.
Come on. Wait.

51:41.810 --> 51:44.229
Herb, come on. Herb.

51:45.250 --> 51:46.699
I mean it, huh?

51:47.179 --> 51:52.550
I mean it all creepy.
And so grouchy, this is Herb Bringer\'s trailer

51:52.560 --> 51:55.699
in Fallon, Nevada, the infamous Herb Bringer.

51:56.790 --> 52:00.659
Great Western photographer chronicler of
history.

52:01.689 --> 52:05.979
I met her when I was a seasonal ranger at
Arches was about five ft tall,

52:05.989 --> 52:11.620
traveled all over the west with a Burmese cat
and had been taking pictures of the west since

52:11.629 --> 52:12.840
1939.

52:15.810 --> 52:17.399
Her, forget about it.

52:19.870 --> 52:22.060
Is this movie?
No? Huh.

52:22.520 --> 52:24.689
It\'s movies, isn\'t it? Yeah.

52:25.090 --> 52:28.070
Yeah, I have no experience at all on that.

52:28.360 --> 52:29.449
Well, just ignore it.

52:30.179 --> 52:32.389
Just pretend it\'s not even there.
All right.

52:32.909 --> 52:37.439
We got to the point where we were on a first
name basis and he asked me if I was married and

52:37.449 --> 52:43.050
I went, no, actually I just got a divorce and
he comes over and he puts his hand on my

52:43.060 --> 52:47.310
shoulder and, uh, he said, oh, I know how you
feel.

52:47.320 --> 52:53.750
I was divorced once, 1939, I had to go to Reno
for a divorce.

52:54.070 --> 52:57.020
We just couldn\'t work things out.
But anyway,

52:57.030 --> 52:59.760
this is what made us kindred spirits in herb\'s
mind.

52:59.770 --> 53:01.600
I think we were both divorced men.

53:07.229 --> 53:13.050
I came from Ringo, New Jersey out to Reno,
Nevada

53:14.260 --> 53:15.419
that close.

53:16.219 --> 53:21.919
Uh, it was a long trip for me.
I\'ve never driven such a distance before,

53:22.530 --> 53:25.989
but I enjoyed it because it was adventuresome.

53:26.209 --> 53:31.209
And I suppose I had the terrific desire to be
in the west.

53:31.399 --> 53:35.020
I had always hoped to be a westerner.

53:36.199 --> 53:42.919
My life in. Missed. Exactly. Please.

53:44.760 --> 53:51.639
I\'m having a real but

53:51.649 --> 53:54.820
he started coming every, you know, like twice a
year to the park.

53:54.830 --> 54:00.020
One year he came by and he left me a little bag
full of color transparencies.

54:00.030 --> 54:03.639
Of the American West from late forties, early
fifties.

54:03.649 --> 54:07.760
Just thousands and thousands of photographs as
the years passed.

54:07.770 --> 54:10.760
He gave me more and more and he started giving
me his journals,

54:10.770 --> 54:13.870
just all kinds of memorabilia.
From the past.

54:14.030 --> 54:19.179
He wrote everything down that he did Friday
evening, November 10th,

54:19.189 --> 54:24.739
1939 people sleeping beside road on desert near
Winnemucca fight in hotel,

54:24.899 --> 54:31.139
a 10 baptist church woman faints hobo jungle
southwest of Hotel along Truckee River,

54:31.260 --> 54:37.729
Indian squaw in store with pap in cradle board.
Tex Kennedy drunk in my room wanted me to go

54:37.739 --> 54:42.020
with him to Mexico work on an engineering
project or on a ranch.

54:42.959 --> 54:45.600
I have a feeling that I have missed out.

54:47.350 --> 54:52.409
I wish that I had devote more time to
photographing these places.

54:52.750 --> 54:56.120
I just took it for granted that they were going
to be there,

54:56.320 --> 55:03.090
but they did not evolve as such.
They changed materially when I started this

55:03.100 --> 55:06.360
ever.
I just thought this is perfect.

55:06.370 --> 55:10.149
I can get herb stuff, get it out there so
people can look at it.

55:10.439 --> 55:15.689
And so that her Ringers American West kind of
became a regular feature and people love it.

55:15.699 --> 55:19.810
I mean, people love seeing these old pictures
of how things used to be.

55:27.870 --> 55:33.169
I always like the paper to have some kind of a,
a connection to the past and kind of a

55:33.179 --> 55:39.040
reverence in a way for people like herb who
lived out here and lived really simply

55:45.649 --> 55:49.500
that\'s probably one of the best things that
ever came out of this paper was the fact that I

55:49.510 --> 55:56.330
got to print his stuff and he got some
recognition that what he had done with his life

55:56.340 --> 56:00.229
was important and he was so happy that someone
just appreciated it

56:11.669 --> 56:14.709
since he lived alone and he didn\'t have any
family really.

56:14.719 --> 56:19.780
He was convinced that they\'d find him dead
someday in his little trailer and the county

56:19.790 --> 56:24.260
would come in and just put everything in a
dumpster and all that stuff would be lost.

56:25.600 --> 56:27.530
I wish I knew what you were doing.

56:28.209 --> 56:29.889
Oh, just sitting here looking out the window.

56:30.510 --> 56:34.449
Herb is more like a surrogate dad.
I\'m not really very close to my family and I

56:34.459 --> 56:39.379
think Herb was more like that in a way.
It just seemed like we were always connected.

56:40.139 --> 56:45.520
What are you doing?
I just got out this locomotive to show you.

56:45.860 --> 56:52.530
Oh, this is the Pacific.
It was reputed upon the building of the

56:52.540 --> 56:58.399
prototype that the locomotive would do 100 and
20 miles an hour.

56:58.409 --> 57:03.370
In later years.
They made this little model and still said that

57:03.379 --> 57:10.340
if you had the knowledge of inches of track
that you have and the size of the wheels,

57:10.350 --> 57:14.830
everything taken into correlation that this
engine would do

57:14.840 --> 57:18.739
120 mph equivalent.

57:19.550 --> 57:23.570
So I did it, I had this thing up to 120 mph.

57:24.620 --> 57:31.189
Now, if I knew this, I would have had a piece
of track here and some scenery for background.

57:37.060 --> 57:43.899
The paper is kind of, it\'s half trying to
remember the way things were and then half

57:43.909 --> 57:46.689
complaining about how outrageous things have
become.

57:49.120 --> 57:52.469
Sometimes I don\'t think I changed.
I think everything changed around me.

57:54.590 --> 58:00.159
In 1985, the issues threatening the West hadn\'t
changed much.

58:00.520 --> 58:05.379
It was the industrial juggernaut attacking the
land.

58:10.100 --> 58:15.909
The extractive industries continued to operate
and take oil and gas and coal and timber and

58:15.919 --> 58:19.760
cattlemen used the land, but it was still a
fairly empty place.

58:19.939 --> 58:20.979
Very empty.

58:32.060 --> 58:37.199
I\'ve been in this weird position of defending
the rural west and I find much of the rural

58:37.209 --> 58:41.510
West hard to deal with and some of the thinking
is pretty backward.

58:41.939 --> 58:47.989
But there is one thing that old Westerners do
appreciate and that is solitude and open space.

58:49.419 --> 58:54.370
You know, old Westerners lived in these small
communities but actually made their living off

58:54.379 --> 58:58.780
the land and could survive off the land.
They had a real connection to it in a lot of

58:58.790 --> 59:05.560
ways.
I think New Westerners, people who have moved

59:05.570 --> 59:10.600
from cities and moved into these small towns,
they probably have a greater respect for the

59:10.610 --> 59:14.510
resource itself, but they\'re totally
intimidated by the solitude,

59:14.709 --> 59:16.179
they just can\'t handle it.

59:16.530 --> 59:21.399
And that\'s why when they come to small towns,
the first thing they try to do is to make it

59:21.409 --> 59:23.000
just like the place they left

59:51.760 --> 59:54.560
was now the adventure capital of something

01:00:03.780 --> 01:00:08.909
Mia Adventure Center and Mo Adventure Lodge and
adventure trips.

01:00:16.250 --> 01:00:18.699
What is an adventure really supposed to be?

01:00:25.129 --> 01:00:29.820
Adventure is some kind of a spontaneous thing
that you don\'t know what\'s going to happen when

01:00:29.830 --> 01:00:32.229
there\'s an element of risk and an element of
danger.

01:00:37.080 --> 01:00:39.510
Really?
That isn\'t what these adventures are.

01:00:39.600 --> 01:00:45.879
They might be exciting relative to what
someone\'s regular life is,

01:00:45.889 --> 01:00:49.739
but it\'s not really an adventure because you
can\'t have an adventure that says your

01:00:49.750 --> 01:00:53.620
adventure will start at nine AM and at 10 AM,
we will do this at 11 AM.

01:00:53.629 --> 01:00:58.350
We\'ll do this and then we\'ll be back at two so
that you can change clothes and go down to the

01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:00.560
brew pub for an early dinner.

01:01:03.929 --> 01:01:08.840
So I thought I would just kind of deal with the
adventure theme for what it really is.

01:01:26.090 --> 01:01:31.070
We need something like the big extravaganza
plus free T shirt,

01:01:55.120 --> 01:01:58.219
Mr Styles.
I\'m the sort of person who takes pride and

01:01:58.229 --> 01:02:01.260
justifiably.
So in my degree of self discipline,

01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:06.040
this quality is but one among many ways in
which you and I differ markedly.

01:02:06.050 --> 01:02:09.439
Time and time again.
I\'ve slogged through yet another of your toxic

01:02:09.449 --> 01:02:13.709
little tantrums concerning guide books for the
interested hiker or backpacker.

01:02:13.719 --> 01:02:18.629
My purpose here is simply to address that great
silent majority of Zephyr readers who not only

01:02:18.639 --> 01:02:24.209
grow desperately weary of your people hating
preservationist, but who indeed thirst after

01:02:24.219 --> 01:02:28.580
the very information.
You so selfishly ridicule a bit humbling A Mr

01:02:28.590 --> 01:02:33.530
Styles.
Thank you, Nick B Yeah, I\'ve had uh more than

01:02:33.540 --> 01:02:38.429
my fair share of bad press from my own
newspaper several times.

01:02:38.439 --> 01:02:43.199
There have been movements in the community to
get my advertisers to drop out and boycott me.

01:02:43.209 --> 01:02:47.520
Like this was the one that riled up all the
realtors or pork belly housing boom.

01:02:47.679 --> 01:02:50.810
And then the one right before that was the same
tourist promotion.

01:02:50.820 --> 01:02:54.500
How much is enough?
That was the one that really made people mad

01:02:54.510 --> 01:02:59.429
because a lot of people in this community think
there\'s no end to tourism and there\'s no end to

01:02:59.439 --> 01:03:02.260
the money that comes from it, but it\'s not true.

01:03:05.439 --> 01:03:10.189
How do you feel about our listeners?
Many of whom spend a lot of time down in moan

01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:12.719
Riding in the Red Rocks.
They love it down there.

01:03:12.729 --> 01:03:15.250
That\'s almost a religious experience for many
of them.

01:03:15.260 --> 01:03:18.250
I think when it\'s a religious experience, I
completely understand.

01:03:18.260 --> 01:03:23.110
But you do have to realistically address the
fact that when hundreds of thousands or

01:03:23.120 --> 01:03:26.750
millions of people all go to the same place
trying to find solitude,

01:03:27.479 --> 01:03:28.969
they\'re not going to find it. Eventually.

01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:35.449
When Mob got cachet, we were duped.

01:03:45.560 --> 01:03:48.050
I think it started changing for me.

01:03:48.469 --> 01:03:54.179
When in the late eighties and early nineties,
there were a lot of anti wilderness people who

01:03:54.189 --> 01:03:59.709
were suggesting that the designation of
wilderness would devastate the rural economies

01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:01.199
of small towns in the West.

01:04:01.489 --> 01:04:07.419
And environmentalists really tried to tackle
that question to the point where I think they

01:04:07.429 --> 01:04:11.000
got diverted from the moral aspect of creating
wilderness.

01:04:11.010 --> 01:04:17.530
They started trying to promote wilderness
because it had an economic value of its own.

01:04:18.689 --> 01:04:23.439
It consumed environmentalists that message to
the point where they don\'t even remember

01:04:23.449 --> 01:04:28.750
anymore that the wilderness that we were trying
to protect wasn\'t really for us in the first

01:04:28.760 --> 01:04:33.969
place.
It was for the land itself when you start

01:04:33.979 --> 01:04:39.959
promoting wilderness because it\'s going to
create an economy that\'s going to be more

01:04:39.969 --> 01:04:42.550
vibrant than the old economy that used to be
there.

01:04:43.070 --> 01:04:47.040
It just didn\'t sit well with me. Yeah.

01:04:53.030 --> 01:04:58.840
And now it\'s down to the point where you\'re
marketing the beauty of the land itself as if

01:04:58.850 --> 01:05:04.770
we\'re moving into this last phase in the total
taming of the west where it\'s actually the

01:05:04.780 --> 01:05:10.080
people who claim to love it the most who are
ultimately going to ruin it completely.

01:05:28.540 --> 01:05:30.310
I gotta take a picture of this sign.

01:05:36.570 --> 01:05:39.459
Well, supposedly all through here will be about
100.

01:05:39.469 --> 01:05:44.439
I don\'t remember how many, exactly about 150
homes and there will be a hotel and a

01:05:44.449 --> 01:05:45.820
restaurant over there.

01:05:46.060 --> 01:05:49.729
Probably two thirds of the people who will come
and want to live here,

01:05:50.020 --> 01:05:53.735
they\'ll call themselves us, but they don\'t
understand that.

01:05:53.995 --> 01:05:56.834
That\'s the problem.
You know, the biggest problem in the future for

01:05:56.844 --> 01:06:01.415
the west isn\'t going to be mining or cattle.
It\'s going to be urban America wanting to move

01:06:01.425 --> 01:06:03.554
to the rural west and have a little ranch yet.

01:06:03.784 --> 01:06:05.645
That\'s what\'s going to ultimately do

01:06:15.610 --> 01:06:20.500
editor your article concerning the loss of the
Denny property to developers back in the

01:06:20.510 --> 01:06:25.270
nineties is the same lament that we hear coming
from most areas whose economy is based on

01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:28.520
tourism.
Well, guess what, the town of Moab in the

01:06:28.530 --> 01:06:31.669
seventies had few redeeming features.
Well, in truth,

01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:35.550
it was a pit.
Moab was a place to gas up as you pass through

01:06:35.560 --> 01:06:40.139
and then get out tourism and related
construction projects such as condos,

01:06:40.149 --> 01:06:45.110
hotels and restaurants, bring money into your
community, learn to enjoy and appreciate your

01:06:45.120 --> 01:06:48.020
prosperity.
If not, you\'re surrounded by a number of

01:06:48.030 --> 01:06:52.899
impoverished towns that you can relocate to so
that you may sample the joys of living in

01:06:52.909 --> 01:06:55.659
poverty.
Peter O Cape Cod.

01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:02.550
What\'s going to happen is the working class.
People will live out here in San Juan County in

01:07:02.560 --> 01:07:06.219
double wides.
All the property in of itself will have gone

01:07:06.229 --> 01:07:11.110
sky high to the point, nobody can afford it and
you\'ll start seeing the same thing that you see

01:07:11.120 --> 01:07:14.219
in Jackson and other places where they\'ll just
buy the lot,

01:07:14.229 --> 01:07:19.419
tear down the little house that was on it and
build something new and just replace it.

01:07:31.850 --> 01:07:34.939
I always considered myself like a progressive
traditionalist.

01:07:34.949 --> 01:07:39.659
You know, I really like the way things were in
most regards.

01:07:40.100 --> 01:07:46.219
I don\'t really like change very much when it\'s
just rampant change for no reason at all.

01:07:46.479 --> 01:07:47.600
And that\'s how I look at Moab.

01:07:48.439 --> 01:07:53.909
There\'s no reason for it to change.
It just did like a juggernaut that just rolled

01:07:53.919 --> 01:07:55.939
into town and just kept turning.

01:08:00.010 --> 01:08:05.659
But if you look back, say 30 or 40 years ago
and you can wax nostalgic about what a

01:08:05.669 --> 01:08:08.879
wonderful time it was.
You know, there was a lot of horrible shit

01:08:08.889 --> 01:08:10.239
going on too, you know.

01:08:10.500 --> 01:08:16.149
So it\'d be nice to see a world that maintained
the traditions that were worth holding on to at

01:08:16.160 --> 01:08:19.740
the same time eliminating things like racism
and bigotry and,

01:08:19.750 --> 01:08:22.720
and environmental unawareness and stuff like
that.

01:08:26.319 --> 01:08:32.930
What\'s happening all over the country is this
movement away from a

01:08:32.939 --> 01:08:35.919
simpler life?
I mean, it seems like that always is the theme

01:08:35.930 --> 01:08:38.370
that I come back to.
It\'s not an environmental issue,

01:08:38.379 --> 01:08:41.689
it\'s not a social issue, it\'s a way of life
issue.

01:08:41.839 --> 01:08:46.529
How do you want to live?
What do you want to be important in your life?

01:08:49.039 --> 01:08:51.648
I don\'t mean to suggest that Moab has no soul
at all.

01:08:51.659 --> 01:08:53.449
There\'s still a lot of wonderful people that
live in mob.

01:08:53.979 --> 01:08:59.608
But I don\'t think there\'s the sense of
community that there was 20 years ago.

01:08:59.619 --> 01:09:04.209
I don\'t find the unifying the bonding that used
to exist there.

01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:08.839
I even miss the fact that a lot of us, even
though we were probably considered left wing

01:09:08.850 --> 01:09:11.919
communist by some of the old timers when we
first moved there,

01:09:11.930 --> 01:09:13.729
we actually had a pretty good dialogue.
You know,

01:09:13.740 --> 01:09:18.089
it\'s been a disappointment to me to find out.
I can\'t disagree with some of my liberal

01:09:18.100 --> 01:09:23.930
friends without getting in trouble whether it
was advertisers or just readers.

01:09:23.939 --> 01:09:27.770
As long as they agreed with everything I wrote,
they were huge fans.

01:09:27.779 --> 01:09:33.720
And then as soon as Edward did one thing that
went against their thinking that I was in the

01:09:33.729 --> 01:09:38.640
doghouse dear styles.
I was surprised by your apparent willingness to

01:09:38.649 --> 01:09:43.470
let public lands ranching continue unabated in
the West and allow the destruction of millions

01:09:43.479 --> 01:09:48.810
of acres of land owned by all Americans so that
a handful of lazy welfare ranchers can make a

01:09:48.819 --> 01:09:52.009
comfortable living.
Please cancel my subscription,

01:09:52.250 --> 01:09:59.169
Robert Kissinger, Denver, Colorado, dear Jim.
This is the real world.

01:10:00.149 --> 01:10:04.169
You place the fate of the American West at the
feet of the environmental community and charge

01:10:04.180 --> 01:10:09.569
them with saving what\'s left in a morally pure
idealistic way that is free from charges of

01:10:09.580 --> 01:10:12.009
hypocrisy.
That\'s a pretty tall order.

01:10:12.040 --> 01:10:15.850
It sounds like the making of martyrdom to me,
Joe Durnell.

01:10:19.060 --> 01:10:24.319
I really thought the whole idea was dialogue
where you can argue over a cup of coffee and at

01:10:24.330 --> 01:10:27.669
the end of the day, shake hands and still be
friends,

01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:34.270
editor.
This is the 21st century and whether we like it

01:10:34.279 --> 01:10:40.049
or not, politics is a money game for you to
criticize the Southern Utah wilderness alliance

01:10:40.060 --> 01:10:43.370
at a time like this can only give comfort to
the enemy.

01:10:43.410 --> 01:10:46.689
I suggest if you can\'t say something nice about
them.

01:10:46.700 --> 01:10:50.919
Keep your mouth shut.
We don\'t need traitors like you at a time like

01:10:50.930 --> 01:10:54.390
this.
Sharon Bennett, Scottsdale, Arizona.

01:11:01.069 --> 01:11:05.759
This is, uh, you know, your, your hearing may
be failing but your memory is pretty darn good.

01:11:06.810 --> 01:11:12.109
You a, uh, Laguna Pueblo,

01:11:14.839 --> 01:11:16.180
his health was failing.

01:11:16.490 --> 01:11:20.689
And I said to a friend of mine, her bringer is
going to die on my birthday.

01:11:25.040 --> 01:11:29.419
Who\'s that?
Cute little fella, cutest little fella?

01:11:29.430 --> 01:11:32.879
Everybody knows, don\'t know what to call him,
but

01:11:37.910 --> 01:11:44.750
I just cut into my room and that Zeph went to
press that day December 11 and the cover was a

01:11:44.759 --> 01:11:51.580
picture of Herb as an old man and as a six year
old boy and it was called the way we were the

01:11:51.589 --> 01:11:55.350
way we are.
And all day, I just had this feeling of gloom

01:11:55.450 --> 01:11:59.740
and I got back and I went down to Dave\'s corner
market, got a cup of coffee.

01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:02.569
Came back.
By the time I came back, there was a message

01:12:02.580 --> 01:12:09.180
that Herb had died when Herb

01:12:09.189 --> 01:12:12.069
died.
He had no family at all.

01:12:12.080 --> 01:12:16.799
And I\'ve been the only person that had really
been in contact with him for many years in a

01:12:16.810 --> 01:12:21.500
way.
So he had left a will that left all his worldly

01:12:21.509 --> 01:12:22.879
possessions to me.

01:12:24.169 --> 01:12:27.930
Herb\'s physical residence was in Reno and later
in Fallon.

01:12:27.939 --> 01:12:30.569
But his home was really the American West.

01:12:30.790 --> 01:12:35.169
And so I started thinking about all the
favorite places that he talked about and I

01:12:35.180 --> 01:12:40.689
decided I would just start traveling with herbs,
ashes whenever I went out on the road and leave

01:12:40.700 --> 01:12:44.910
a little bit of herb wherever.
I thought it was a place that he would like

01:12:44.919 --> 01:12:47.700
being there.
I still have a few miles to go.

01:12:47.709 --> 01:12:52.339
I think before I put a herb at all the places
he would have loved

01:13:23.430 --> 01:13:27.859
a couple of years ago I was really down and I
was really sick of it.

01:13:27.870 --> 01:13:33.100
You know, I was just angry all the time.

01:13:33.790 --> 01:13:36.479
I don\'t know.
I was almost taking it personally just that I

01:13:36.490 --> 01:13:42.020
didn\'t think things would be like this.
Now, I didn\'t think the world and the west

01:13:42.029 --> 01:13:44.129
would be headed in the direction that it is.

01:13:45.259 --> 01:13:49.109
Smells good.
Maybe I\'m just drawn to hopeless loss causes or

01:13:49.120 --> 01:13:52.540
something.
You know, maybe people like me are just

01:13:52.549 --> 01:13:53.560
anachronisms.

01:13:57.040 --> 01:14:01.169
You know, I like to think every once in a while
somebody picks up the paper and it makes them

01:14:01.180 --> 01:14:05.910
think about the things they\'ve lost in their
life in the same way that I picked up desert

01:14:05.919 --> 01:14:09.839
solitaire and thought about things that were
important to me that I hadn\'t been able to

01:14:09.850 --> 01:14:11.049
articulate before.

01:14:13.939 --> 01:14:18.580
I really think that if you go into a business
like this where you think you\'re really gonna

01:14:18.589 --> 01:14:21.879
make a difference and you have that expectation,
you know,

01:14:21.890 --> 01:14:28.620
it\'ll destroy you, it\'ll absolutely rip your
guts out because really the odds of winning,

01:14:29.009 --> 01:14:35.680
you know, are, are pretty remote dear Jim.

01:14:35.740 --> 01:14:39.180
Unfortunately, you\'re still just railing
against the inevitable.

01:14:39.189 --> 01:14:44.529
Like the owner of a house shouting epithets at
a tornado which will ultimately tear the house

01:14:44.540 --> 01:14:48.270
to shreds and cast its owner aside like so much
Kleenex.

01:14:48.859 --> 01:14:54.669
The fact is that in the next 100 years, a
combination of oil and gas drilling over

01:14:54.680 --> 01:15:00.430
grazing, condo, building mountain biking a TV.
Jeep, rock climbing,

01:15:00.439 --> 01:15:05.149
coal fired power plants, highways, outlet malls,
et cetera,

01:15:05.160 --> 01:15:10.854
et cetera, et cetera will leave the area.
A total loss to those who want wilderness and

01:15:10.865 --> 01:15:15.765
know this.
Today\'s kids don\'t expect or want quiet anyway.

01:15:15.915 --> 01:15:21.964
They want cell phone access, wireless internet
and a fast food outlet within a mile or so.

01:15:22.205 --> 01:15:29.205
And that\'s what they\'ll get and we\'ll be dead.
And that\'s the truth Crystal worthy

01:15:29.214 --> 01:15:31.854
Pacific Palisades, California.

01:15:35.080 --> 01:15:36.500
What\'s the point of it all?

01:15:39.229 --> 01:15:40.229
I don\'t know.

01:15:55.359 --> 01:16:00.330
What\'s the takeaway message uh Jim, that you\'d
like people to take away from brave Midwest.

01:16:01.040 --> 01:16:06.080
I don\'t mean to sound pessimistic, but I, I can
tell you that at this point in my life,

01:16:06.089 --> 01:16:10.959
I\'m in my fifties now and I, I, even though I
started this effort as a real activist,

01:16:10.970 --> 01:16:14.129
I don\'t consider the book a call to action to
turn the world around.

01:16:14.140 --> 01:16:20.490
I wish it would, but I\'m pretty realistic about
that, but I don\'t think I\'d be sitting here

01:16:20.500 --> 01:16:23.089
with you right now.
If it didn\'t have a much broader application,

01:16:23.100 --> 01:16:25.569
I think what\'s happening in Moab is happening
everywhere.

01:16:25.580 --> 01:16:28.870
I get letters and emails from people constantly
who are saying,

01:16:28.879 --> 01:16:32.890
you know, the same thing is happening here and
pick any city you want?

01:16:33.220 --> 01:16:36.100
Hi, how are you?
You\'re I am what\'s left of it?

01:16:36.189 --> 01:16:39.310
You\'re getting old.
Just what I wanted to hear.

01:16:39.319 --> 01:16:43.899
I sent you $10 to buy a new ribbon for the
address label.

01:16:44.500 --> 01:16:46.500
And it took another three months before it got
done.

01:16:46.509 --> 01:16:48.680
But now the postman said, now I can find you.

01:16:50.330 --> 01:16:56.109
The theme of the book while it\'s about is
really how this very materialistic culture is

01:16:56.120 --> 01:17:01.149
where we get farther and farther away from the
simple ways we used to entertain ourselves and

01:17:01.160 --> 01:17:04.060
bring happiness to ourselves is sort of being
lost.

01:17:05.100 --> 01:17:11.750
Uh It\'s a real pleasure to have 2 Canyon
country misanthropes with us

01:17:11.759 --> 01:17:17.560
tonight.
Seldom seen slight himself and the original

01:17:17.569 --> 01:17:24.189
canyon country curmudgeon and whether you love
him or hate him styles is in fact an

01:17:24.200 --> 01:17:29.339
American original.
There\'s no one else that has the sense of

01:17:29.350 --> 01:17:36.080
depravity combined with the most miraculous
sense of exposing

01:17:36.089 --> 01:17:42.879
what\'s wrong standing up for what\'s right, no
matter what the political cost is

01:17:42.939 --> 01:17:48.919
to him. Yes.

01:17:49.950 --> 01:17:56.330
Yeah.
As many of, you know, mob has changed a lot in

01:17:56.339 --> 01:18:01.680
the last 20 years when I started this effort.
It was a different world in Moab at the time.

01:18:01.689 --> 01:18:04.850
And I thought I was a real activist that might
help not change the world,

01:18:04.859 --> 01:18:09.359
but maybe change my town and, but as far as the
answer, I don\'t know what the answer is.

01:18:09.370 --> 01:18:12.919
I read one review of my book and said, well, he
doesn\'t offer any solutions.

01:18:12.930 --> 01:18:17.450
Well, I don\'t know, I don\'t have any solutions.
My book is a eulogy about what happened and

01:18:17.459 --> 01:18:19.140
what is happening to the rural west.

01:18:19.649 --> 01:18:23.029
And I don\'t, I don\'t know what\'s gonna happen.

01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:25.189
Yes.
Oh, thank God.

01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:29.000
Questions to the publisher of the Canyon
Country\'s effort.

01:18:29.100 --> 01:18:34.500
Thank you for encouraging me for your writing
to return to trying to make a difference even

01:18:34.509 --> 01:18:41.350
if it causes fits J S Parker, New York City
from

01:18:41.529 --> 01:18:44.459
my favorite ranger from your favorite ranger.

01:18:45.520 --> 01:18:49.459
Am I Jim?
I know you\'re often accused of whining,

01:18:49.470 --> 01:18:52.319
but you say what needs saying in a pragmatic
fashion.

01:18:52.660 --> 01:18:55.720
Thanks for the enrichment.
Bodie Pollock,

01:18:55.729 --> 01:18:57.169
Escalante Utah.

01:19:01.060 --> 01:19:04.470
I\'m really looking forward to reading it.
Thank you so much for writing this book.

01:19:04.729 --> 01:19:07.729
Oh, thanks.

01:19:08.080 --> 01:19:11.109
Yeah, it\'s been a love hate relationship for a
long time.

01:19:13.250 --> 01:19:14.790
The world is a much better place.

01:19:15.589 --> 01:19:22.470
Oh, now, now you\'ve gone too far, dear, Jim.
This is an anonymous letter because Frank you

01:19:22.479 --> 01:19:25.810
and I have never gotten along and probably
never will.

01:19:25.830 --> 01:19:31.370
However, I don\'t want to let a little thing
like terminal animosity prevent me from telling

01:19:31.379 --> 01:19:33.359
you how much I enjoy reading the Zeph.

01:19:34.160 --> 01:19:38.810
Keep up the good work.
Don\'t let us become complacent or worse yet,

01:19:38.819 --> 01:19:40.979
apathetic.
Best regards.

01:19:40.990 --> 01:19:42.950
Anonymous Moab woman

01:20:02.879 --> 01:20:06.529
I always remembered, you know, one of the first
lines from desert solitaire,

01:20:06.540 --> 01:20:09.850
throw a rock at something big and glassy.
What have you got to lose?

01:20:10.009 --> 01:20:14.259
I think sometimes that\'s all we can really hope
for is to throw a rock at something big and

01:20:14.270 --> 01:20:17.149
glassy and maybe people will notice maybe a
little slow them down.

01:20:17.160 --> 01:20:20.649
Maybe it\'ll change things.
But I think you at least have the obligation to

01:20:20.660 --> 01:20:22.890
try otherwise.

01:20:23.100 --> 01:20:27.879
Now, how do you even live with yourself if you
just roll over every time the bad guys come

01:20:27.890 --> 01:20:30.970
along and, you know, push you farther up
against the wall.

01:20:31.600 --> 01:20:35.609
Someone had commented to me that thought that a
lot lighter last year.

01:20:35.620 --> 01:20:38.430
And this friend of mine said he was talking to
someone who read this effort,

01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:41.330
but who never met me, he said, you know, was
this guy,

01:20:41.339 --> 01:20:44.520
like, really depressed for a long time and now
he feels better or something.

01:20:45.419 --> 01:20:50.370
But I don\'t know, a year or so ago, I just sort
of got over a hump and I felt like I could go

01:20:50.379 --> 01:20:54.089
forward with a clear conscience and keep
talking about the thing that I thought was

01:20:54.100 --> 01:20:57.370
important.
But without being offended, if not everybody

01:20:57.379 --> 01:21:01.180
agreed with me, this is what I do and this is
what I believe.

01:21:01.189 --> 01:21:04.520
And if nobody else believes me, it doesn\'t
really matter.

01:21:04.950 --> 01:21:09.299
There\'s just something, you know, each of us
where we hopefully follow our instincts.

01:21:12.759 --> 01:21:16.109
Did it again.
I think the saddest thing for someone is when

01:21:16.120 --> 01:21:20.279
they don\'t follow their instincts and end up
doing something that goes counter to what they

01:21:20.290 --> 01:21:24.080
really feel.
Sometimes what I do doesn\'t make me very happy.

01:21:24.089 --> 01:21:27.069
But the alternative might have been a lot worse

01:21:33.990 --> 01:21:35.799
as far as the future.
I don\'t know.

01:21:36.479 --> 01:21:40.750
I just figure I\'ll keep doing it.
I think your concept of hope has to broaden a

01:21:40.759 --> 01:21:43.120
bit.
You have to think, well, things are going to

01:21:43.129 --> 01:21:46.669
get better next year and they\'re not going to
get better in a decade.

01:21:46.680 --> 01:21:51.399
They might not get better in my lifetime, but
maybe what we\'re doing is a holding action.

01:21:51.410 --> 01:21:57.145
So that finally when the world\'s intelligence
evolves enough to take these things seriously

01:21:57.154 --> 01:21:59.845
and to appreciate them that there will be
something left.

01:21:59.854 --> 01:22:04.245
You know, it\'s like the guys at the Alamo
giving Sam Houston time to put his army

01:22:04.254 --> 01:22:06.645
together to defeat Santa Ana at San Jay.

01:22:07.214 --> 01:22:12.979
You know, we like the guys at the Alamo of the
Korea.

01:22:16.729 --> 01:22:18.439
They get down and they can\'t get,

01:22:29.919 --> 01:22:31.759
that\'s it.
This nightmare is over.

01:22:46.899 --> 01:22:52.850
It goes, can see the

01:23:11.729 --> 01:23:18.540
in the morning.
I was then around with candy wearing a

01:23:18.549 --> 01:23:20.669
powered tie my

01:24:04.660 --> 01:24:05.660
time but

01:24:16.790 --> 01:24:21.560
before too long it\'s gonna be too late for you
and me.

01:24:23.069 --> 01:24:29.970
We\'ll ride off in the sunset.
Where to live in is this

01:24:29.979 --> 01:24:35.390
used to nice place.
And everybody. Mm.

01:24:36.339 --> 01:24:41.890
And how come all them people they don\'t go back
to where they came

01:24:56.700 --> 01:24:58.859
at this nice place.

01:25:07.060 --> 01:25:08.060
I won\'t go.

01:25:22.450 --> 01:25:23.850
What up, man? Bye.

01:25:35.040 --> 01:25:39.979
I wish.
Ok,

01:26:08.470 --> 01:26:14.669
this is an ad I ran for myself, attention,
future civilizations with time travel

01:26:14.680 --> 01:26:18.100
capability.
Examining this newspaper as a historical

01:26:18.109 --> 01:26:21.160
document.
Meet me at the following earth coordinates.

01:26:21.169 --> 01:26:28.109
May 14 1995 11 pm mountain daylight time and
get me out of say 10,000

01:26:28.120 --> 01:26:32.660
years from now in the future.
They\'re examining this as some ancient document

01:26:32.830 --> 01:26:37.160
and they can have time travel capability and
these exact coordinates for my house.

01:26:38.149 --> 01:26:43.629
Wouldn\'t that be cool to, you know, show up,
like to,

01:26:44.509 --> 01:26:44.919
you know?