00:00:01.485 --> 00:00:03.960
[FROG CROAKING]

00:00:12.390 --> 00:00:14.190
- I firmly believe
that we must strive

00:00:14.190 --> 00:00:16.620
to keep certain memories alive.

00:00:16.620 --> 00:00:18.480
And the camera is a way
of preventing things

00:00:18.480 --> 00:00:19.230
from disappearing.

00:00:19.230 --> 00:00:21.582
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:00:24.570 --> 00:00:26.562
[CAR HORN SOUNDING]

00:00:36.550 --> 00:00:42.585
- I've got no idea of what
the reconciliation is.

00:00:47.800 --> 00:00:49.279
They need a teacher.

00:02:43.600 --> 00:02:46.070
- He was the only
one who was effective

00:02:46.070 --> 00:02:49.100
and the only one anyway
with guts to stand up

00:02:49.100 --> 00:02:53.120
and say, this is the year
of the Freedom Charter.

00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:56.130
The colors we are following
is black, green, and gold.

00:02:56.130 --> 00:03:02.340
- Yes, he was wearing
the ANC colors public

00:03:02.340 --> 00:03:04.033
and was also detained for it.

00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:39.710
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:03:41.710 --> 00:03:43.710
[NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:03:46.612 --> 00:03:49.170
- He would have been
a great dad, I think,

00:03:49.170 --> 00:03:52.890
if he could have
been still around.

00:03:52.890 --> 00:03:56.270
Because he really did love
children, and he loved people.

00:03:56.270 --> 00:04:00.180
Because I hear that he was
a fine person, you know?

00:04:00.180 --> 00:04:04.570
When you are sad, he always
try to make you smile,

00:04:04.570 --> 00:04:06.150
you know, to make
you just to forget

00:04:06.150 --> 00:04:08.630
about your pains and problems.

00:04:08.630 --> 00:04:11.000
He was a very happy
person, energetic.

00:05:00.808 --> 00:05:03.298
[NON ENGLISH SINGING AND
CHANTING]

00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:35.800
- I never knew Siphiwo Mtimkulu,
but our lives have connected.

00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:38.860
We were detained around the
same time under Section 6

00:05:38.860 --> 00:05:40.335
of the Terrorism Act.

00:05:40.335 --> 00:05:43.060
He in Port Elizabeth,
myself in Cape Town.

00:05:46.172 --> 00:05:48.630
I was held for making films
the apartheid government didn't

00:05:48.630 --> 00:05:49.130
like.

00:05:53.070 --> 00:05:57.270
Shortly after my release, I
saw from a newspaper article

00:05:57.270 --> 00:05:59.550
that there was a student
activist who was desperately

00:05:59.550 --> 00:06:02.610
ill, having been
tortured and poisoned

00:06:02.610 --> 00:06:05.100
while in solitary confinement.

00:06:05.100 --> 00:06:08.130
I remember how astonished I
was that he had the audacity

00:06:08.130 --> 00:06:11.760
to sue the Minister of
Police on both counts.

00:06:11.760 --> 00:06:14.190
And I was horrified, though
not entirely surprised,

00:06:14.190 --> 00:06:18.360
when shortly thereafter
he disappeared.

00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:20.910
By this time, he had
fathered two children,

00:06:20.910 --> 00:06:25.050
Aluta and Sikhumbuzo, by
different girlfriends.

00:06:25.050 --> 00:06:29.640
In 1995, nearly 14 years
after Siphiwo's disappearance,

00:06:29.640 --> 00:06:31.410
I first met the family.

00:06:31.410 --> 00:06:34.395
And over the past seven years,
I've been filming their story.

00:06:51.080 --> 00:06:57.210
- If I can say anything in
front of the Truth Commission,

00:06:57.210 --> 00:07:04.010
I am pleading to each ask
these chaps to tell me or us

00:07:04.010 --> 00:07:05.720
what they did to Siphiwo.

00:07:05.720 --> 00:07:08.440
And why they did it.

00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:09.360
How?

00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:11.120
Where are Siphiwo's bones?

00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:12.905
What are they going to do?

00:07:12.905 --> 00:07:14.765
[CROWD CHANTING AND YELLING]

00:07:17.090 --> 00:07:20.630
- May 1996-- and the crowd at
the Truth Commission hearing

00:07:20.630 --> 00:07:23.960
on Siphiwo Mtimkulu
is extremely angry,

00:07:23.960 --> 00:07:26.450
as his killers have branded
Siphiwo's mother, Joyce,

00:07:26.450 --> 00:07:30.590
a liar and have used the courts
to block Joyce three times from

00:07:30.590 --> 00:07:33.140
testifying.

00:07:33.140 --> 00:07:38.420
- It was here on the day
I showed her in a forum

00:07:38.420 --> 00:07:42.350
where she would pour her heart
out for the cathartic effect

00:07:42.350 --> 00:07:45.330
that this usually
has on people who

00:07:45.330 --> 00:07:49.010
have been waddling of
pain and frustration

00:07:49.010 --> 00:07:51.430
for all these number of years.

00:07:51.430 --> 00:07:58.770
Nieuwoudt denied that
woman a number of times

00:07:58.770 --> 00:08:00.090
from saying her piece.

00:08:00.090 --> 00:08:02.545
[NON ENGLISH SINGING AND
YELLING]

00:08:08.440 --> 00:08:11.450
- The crowd chanted kill
Nieuwoudt, as they identified

00:08:11.450 --> 00:08:14.660
him as the chief culprit.

00:08:14.660 --> 00:08:16.580
Nieuwoudt had added
to their anger

00:08:16.580 --> 00:08:19.460
by preventing witnesses
from mentioning him by name

00:08:19.460 --> 00:08:21.620
in numerous other cases.

00:08:21.620 --> 00:08:23.270
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:08:23.270 --> 00:08:28.210
- The men implicated in
Siphiwo's killing were General

00:08:28.210 --> 00:08:31.430
[INAUDIBLE] Nicolaas Erasmus,
head of security police

00:08:31.430 --> 00:08:34.940
operations in the province, who
says he ordered the elimination

00:08:34.940 --> 00:08:40.909
of Siphiwo Mtimkulu; General
Nicolaas Jacobus Janse van

00:08:40.909 --> 00:08:45.310
Rensburg, who
pulled the trigger;

00:08:45.310 --> 00:08:47.350
Colonel Hermanus
Barend du Plessis,

00:08:47.350 --> 00:08:51.460
who recommended Nieuwoudt;
and Colonel Gideon Johannes

00:08:51.460 --> 00:08:54.770
Nieuwoudt, then a warrant
officer who monitored

00:08:54.770 --> 00:08:57.230
and interrogated Siphiwo.

00:08:57.230 --> 00:08:59.480
They sought amnesty
just two days

00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:02.650
before the original
deadline expired.

00:09:02.650 --> 00:09:08.680
Siphiwo [INAUDIBLE] Mtimkulu and
Topsy Mdaka, Steven Bantu Biko,

00:09:08.680 --> 00:09:12.540
the Motherwell car bomb,
the Pebco Three killings--

00:09:12.540 --> 00:09:16.270
10 murders for which Gideo
Nieuwoudt applied for amnesty.

00:09:16.270 --> 00:09:18.890
However, in the case
of Siphiwo Mtimkulu,

00:09:18.890 --> 00:09:21.220
Nieuwoudt and the others
denied any knowledge

00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:22.795
of torture or poison.

00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.120
Reconstructions
used in this film

00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.860
are based on
Siphiwo's affidavit,

00:09:31.860 --> 00:09:33.720
where he named names.

00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:35.220
And principal among
these was that

00:09:35.220 --> 00:09:37.920
of Gideon Nieuwoudt,
who denies ever having

00:09:37.920 --> 00:09:39.205
physically assaulted Siphiwo.

00:09:39.205 --> 00:09:41.000
[MUSIC PLAYING]

00:09:53.500 --> 00:09:56.200
Siphiwo was barely 22 years
old when he was killed.

00:09:58.930 --> 00:10:02.260
Already by then, he had
been detained many times.

00:10:02.260 --> 00:10:05.920
His final detention in
1981, lasting five months,

00:10:05.920 --> 00:10:08.350
occurred when Siphiwo
and other activists

00:10:08.350 --> 00:10:11.410
brought in ANC pamphlets
from Lesotho, calling

00:10:11.410 --> 00:10:14.530
for a boycott of the apartheid
government's Republic Day

00:10:14.530 --> 00:10:19.500
celebrations, a boycott
supported by the student body

00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:20.480
Cosas.

00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:23.890
- Siphiwo was in
control of the region,

00:10:23.890 --> 00:10:25.630
the whole of eastern Cape.

00:10:25.630 --> 00:10:27.750
He was very powerful.

00:10:27.750 --> 00:10:30.750
Number one, he's known
as a great singer.

00:10:30.750 --> 00:10:37.310
Number two, he can
shape the masses.

00:10:37.310 --> 00:10:39.517
Number three, if I get
the message to him,

00:10:39.517 --> 00:10:40.850
I know it's going to carried on.

00:11:12.127 --> 00:11:14.460
- Knowing that the security
police were hunting for them

00:11:14.460 --> 00:11:16.920
everywhere, Siphiwo
and his comrades

00:11:16.920 --> 00:11:19.040
decided to leave
town for a while.

00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:21.810
But Siphiwo insisted on fetching
his favorite pair of boots

00:11:21.810 --> 00:11:22.800
from another house.

00:11:27.910 --> 00:11:31.470
- Well, it was, you
know, approaching 11,

00:11:31.470 --> 00:11:34.300
and it was quiet.

00:11:34.300 --> 00:11:38.410
Then on the way, I
felt like I should pee.

00:11:38.410 --> 00:11:40.840
Siphiwo and
[INAUDIBLE] proceeded.

00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:43.810
I saw a police van.

00:11:43.810 --> 00:11:46.730
Then I made a warning
to them and said,

00:11:46.730 --> 00:11:49.570
[INAUDIBLE] the police ran out.

00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:51.895
[YELLING]

00:11:56.090 --> 00:11:59.300
- I got scared and I ran.

00:11:59.300 --> 00:12:01.976
Shots were fired at me.

00:12:01.976 --> 00:12:02.700
[GUNFIRE]

00:12:02.700 --> 00:12:04.508
One shot hit my right arm.

00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:20.830
- [INAUDIBLE] building, offices
of the old security rooms.

00:13:23.870 --> 00:13:28.840
The activists feared this,
the name [INAUDIBLE]..

00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:31.260
It's true that we
had [INAUDIBLE]

00:13:31.260 --> 00:13:36.695
and we were the
cream of the crop.

00:13:36.695 --> 00:13:42.450
They called me
Notorious Nieuwoudt.

00:13:42.450 --> 00:13:45.300
That was the name
given by the activist

00:13:45.300 --> 00:13:51.240
due to the fact that I was loyal
to my country, to my people,

00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.074
and to the government.

00:13:56.710 --> 00:13:59.750
I tried to recruit
Siphiwo Mtimkulu

00:13:59.750 --> 00:14:05.840
and he wasn't prepared to.

00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:08.160
- Nieuwoudt left the
office with a towel.

00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:09.980
He returned.

00:14:09.980 --> 00:14:13.070
The towel was wet and
dripping with water.

00:14:13.070 --> 00:14:15.980
He tied it over
my nose and mouth.

00:14:15.980 --> 00:14:19.610
As I inhaled, the water
entered my nasal passage.

00:14:19.610 --> 00:14:24.856
Breathing was difficult. I
lost consciousness and fell.

00:14:24.856 --> 00:14:27.120
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:32.450
- Now, if the walls could
speak at this moment,

00:14:32.450 --> 00:14:37.090
there's no words to explain
the situation of what

00:14:37.090 --> 00:14:41.370
effective this special branch
were in that stage, how

00:14:41.370 --> 00:14:43.420
effective we were.

00:14:43.420 --> 00:14:47.110
- So the pressure
built up, everything.

00:14:47.110 --> 00:14:50.740
That we must tell them more
about our ANC activities

00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.330
and our contacts and
the people [INAUDIBLE]

00:14:53.330 --> 00:14:54.700
through the country.

00:14:54.700 --> 00:14:57.774
And they always tried
to bring in Siphiwo.

00:14:57.774 --> 00:15:00.209
[FOOTSTEPS]

00:15:00.209 --> 00:15:01.670
- [INAUDIBLE]

00:15:01.670 --> 00:15:05.079
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:15:10.950 --> 00:15:13.913
- They applied the rings
to one toe of each foot.

00:15:17.540 --> 00:15:22.040
I felt bursts of electricity
for periods of a few seconds.

00:15:22.040 --> 00:15:25.460
I was shocked till I could not
resist or stand it any longer,

00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:27.480
and I lost consciousness.

00:15:31.890 --> 00:15:34.350
- During their torturing,
at one point they took me

00:15:34.350 --> 00:15:38.650
to [INAUDIBLE] in an old
farmyard, [INAUDIBLE]..

00:15:38.650 --> 00:15:41.050
They kept me there for six days.

00:15:41.050 --> 00:15:44.340
So I said, let me
try my last throw.

00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:47.180
I said I'll be an informer.

00:15:47.180 --> 00:15:49.940
At least two of us
now got recruited--

00:15:49.940 --> 00:15:58.460
initially myself and [INAUDIBLE]
by the security police.

00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:01.790
And then Siphiwo was stubborn.

00:16:01.790 --> 00:16:03.155
Hence, he got poisoned.

00:16:06.110 --> 00:16:10.490
- The pain started when I was
required to stand for 12 days.

00:16:10.490 --> 00:16:13.910
I also had stomach pains which
were continuous and aggravated

00:16:13.910 --> 00:16:16.200
by hunger.

00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:19.610
- It was a total of 18 and a
half hours of interrogation

00:16:19.610 --> 00:16:21.170
within a space of four days.

00:16:21.170 --> 00:16:22.280
Is that human?

00:16:22.280 --> 00:16:26.310
- If one looks back at this,
then I must agree with you,

00:16:26.310 --> 00:16:29.500
it is possibly not human.

00:16:29.500 --> 00:16:32.492
- So at that stage, you do
not think it was inhumane?

00:16:32.492 --> 00:16:34.700
It's only now that you are
applying for [INAUDIBLE],,

00:16:34.700 --> 00:16:35.870
you think it's inhuman.

00:16:35.870 --> 00:16:36.995
Is that what you're saying?

00:16:40.370 --> 00:16:42.000
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.588
- That is so, your honor.

00:16:43.588 --> 00:16:47.220
[METAL CLANGING]

00:16:47.220 --> 00:16:50.880
- When he was released,
Siphiwo was in severe pain.

00:16:50.880 --> 00:16:52.390
His hair had receded.

00:16:52.390 --> 00:16:55.791
And he was confused and
barely able to walk.

00:16:55.791 --> 00:16:58.290
- He was groaning
from these pains

00:16:58.290 --> 00:17:00.160
in the body, the stomach--

00:17:00.160 --> 00:17:03.870
the stomach pains and fits.

00:17:03.870 --> 00:17:11.250
Then, in the morning, we took
him to Livingston hospital.

00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:16.240
That's where we thought
Siphiwo was going to die.

00:17:21.472 --> 00:17:23.430
- [INAUDIBLE] and told
him [INAUDIBLE] Siphiwo,

00:17:23.430 --> 00:17:24.550
I'm pregnant.

00:17:24.550 --> 00:17:31.880
And then he was puzzled and
say, pity me, I cannot walk.

00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.330
Siphiwo was immediately
transferred from Port Elizabeth

00:17:35.330 --> 00:17:38.150
to [INAUDIBLE]
hospital in Cape Town.

00:17:38.150 --> 00:17:39.434
- He was sick.

00:17:39.434 --> 00:17:42.280
Wouldn't talk to me.

00:17:42.280 --> 00:17:45.070
But he could sing that
chorus they usually

00:17:45.070 --> 00:17:48.020
sing about Comrade Mandela.

00:17:53.421 --> 00:17:55.876
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:18:03.630 --> 00:18:08.400
- If somebody has severe
neurological damage

00:18:08.400 --> 00:18:14.070
and abdominal pain and
they've been in prison,

00:18:14.070 --> 00:18:20.610
then one suspects some
toxin has been administered.

00:18:20.610 --> 00:18:28.020
We then asked the
nursing staff to get us

00:18:28.020 --> 00:18:31.050
some hair out by the roots.

00:18:31.050 --> 00:18:34.692
And the patient said, but you
don't need to pull it out.

00:18:34.692 --> 00:18:35.192
Look at it.

00:18:35.192 --> 00:18:36.234
It's lying on the pillow.

00:18:36.234 --> 00:18:38.970
It's falling out.

00:18:38.970 --> 00:18:44.420
And that was the clue to
the poison being thallium.

00:18:44.420 --> 00:18:45.450
- This is--

00:18:45.450 --> 00:18:46.726
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:18:46.726 --> 00:18:48.770
- --Siphiwo's hair.

00:18:48.770 --> 00:18:54.560
This is the scalp
attached to the hair.

00:18:54.560 --> 00:18:59.900
I want the Commission to witness
the effect of the poison which

00:18:59.900 --> 00:19:02.400
was used to my son.

00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:07.790
- Thallium is a
murderous green drug.

00:19:07.790 --> 00:19:12.360
It's tasteless, it's
odorless, it's colorless.

00:19:12.360 --> 00:19:16.370
It's a miracle
that he didn't die.

00:19:16.370 --> 00:19:29.690
- I prayed to God that
if Siphiwo can come back

00:19:29.690 --> 00:19:42.430
from Capetown alive, I will
do anything to please God,

00:19:42.430 --> 00:19:45.100
because I wanted
him to come back.

00:19:45.100 --> 00:19:50.460
[BEEPING]

00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:51.790
- He was very weak.

00:19:51.790 --> 00:19:55.510
But then I was the first person
that he wrote a letter to,

00:19:55.510 --> 00:19:56.010
you know?

00:19:56.010 --> 00:19:59.440
He just wrote my name
and just told my mother

00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:00.590
to look after me.

00:20:00.590 --> 00:20:04.090
And then he just said
that tell my baby

00:20:04.090 --> 00:20:07.090
that I loved her and I'll
always, you know, love her.

00:20:10.570 --> 00:20:13.750
- The security police tried
to seize Siphiwo in hospital,

00:20:13.750 --> 00:20:15.740
but were turned away
by staff who said

00:20:15.740 --> 00:20:18.340
he was too sick to be seen.

00:20:18.340 --> 00:20:20.320
You can hear the
effects of the poison

00:20:20.320 --> 00:20:22.720
in this unique recording
made at his hospital bed.

00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:33.110
- I was lying in the room,
the same room at Sanlam

00:20:33.110 --> 00:20:34.620
where Steve Biko died.

00:20:37.420 --> 00:20:45.490
He asked me if I'm still not
prepared to tell the truth.

00:20:45.490 --> 00:20:47.807
I said, what truth?

00:20:47.807 --> 00:20:52.300
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:20:52.300 --> 00:20:54.430
- You've seen his affidavit?

00:20:54.430 --> 00:20:55.510
- Yes.

00:20:55.510 --> 00:20:58.390
- Is it all a pack of lies?

00:20:58.390 --> 00:21:01.540
- Well, just read it.

00:21:01.540 --> 00:21:12.500
Any pointing at me, I would
say, yes, it's a pack of lies.

00:21:12.500 --> 00:21:14.500
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:21:51.230 --> 00:21:55.370
- A friend and prominent human
rights campaign Molly Blackburn

00:21:55.370 --> 00:21:58.670
asked fellow activists
Di and Brian Bishop

00:21:58.670 --> 00:22:02.220
to give Siphiwo their support.

00:22:02.220 --> 00:22:06.610
- Sometimes we
would visit and he

00:22:06.610 --> 00:22:12.280
would be surrounded by friends
who were reluctant to make way

00:22:12.280 --> 00:22:17.060
for us to say hello to
Siphiwo and who were clearly

00:22:17.060 --> 00:22:20.980
antagonistic towards us
because we were white.

00:22:20.980 --> 00:22:26.920
And I can remember one occasion
when we arrived one evening.

00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:29.920
And there was a host
of friends around him.

00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:33.100
His friends were
clearly not keen

00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:35.130
that he should engage with us.

00:22:35.130 --> 00:22:38.320
And he just turned to
them and said to them,

00:22:38.320 --> 00:22:41.860
if it is for a non-racial South
Africa that you're all fighting

00:22:41.860 --> 00:22:45.360
and that you're
committed to, then

00:22:45.360 --> 00:22:48.060
if you're going to go into
this new South Africa hating

00:22:48.060 --> 00:22:51.210
the white people, it's
going to be no better

00:22:51.210 --> 00:22:54.770
than the present South Africa.

00:22:54.770 --> 00:22:56.600
- After three
months in hospital,

00:22:56.600 --> 00:22:59.870
Siphiwo insisted on returning
to Port Elizabeth, where

00:22:59.870 --> 00:23:04.910
he lay charges of poisoning
against the Minister of Police.

00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:08.080
- We went to go and
fetch him at the airport.

00:23:08.080 --> 00:23:11.820
[INAUDIBLE] was among those
who went to fetch him with

00:23:11.820 --> 00:23:13.250
[INAUDIBLE].

00:23:13.250 --> 00:23:17.810
The generals asked Siphiwo
if he can now forget

00:23:17.810 --> 00:23:21.830
about politic or struggle.

00:23:25.100 --> 00:23:30.570
He said no, not
at this juncture.

00:23:30.570 --> 00:23:35.570
Why or while I'm like this,
confined on a wheelchair?

00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:41.320
No, I can't turn back.

00:23:41.320 --> 00:23:43.810
I will never turn back.

00:23:43.810 --> 00:23:46.960
- When I was born, my
father was not around.

00:23:46.960 --> 00:23:49.180
He was detained.

00:23:49.180 --> 00:23:57.050
So my aunt-- she's the one
who, you know, named me.

00:23:57.050 --> 00:23:58.670
She named me Pumasa.

00:23:58.670 --> 00:24:02.540
But then, my mother said when
my father came out of prison,

00:24:02.540 --> 00:24:05.450
he came back and just
said, no, no, no, no, no.

00:24:05.450 --> 00:24:09.890
This has changed--
her to be Aluta.

00:24:09.890 --> 00:24:11.965
Aluta means the
struggle must continue.

00:24:38.450 --> 00:24:43.480
- We did not want him
to go out by any chance.

00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.780
Because he was not
in good condition

00:24:46.780 --> 00:24:50.760
to go out with friends, although
friends would take him and then

00:24:50.760 --> 00:24:53.830
bring him back.

00:24:53.830 --> 00:24:56.410
- Vulnerable as he was,
and aware of the danger

00:24:56.410 --> 00:25:00.580
to his life, Siphiwo made
sure that he was never alone.

00:25:00.580 --> 00:25:05.410
- We'd normally go out
with Siphiwo himself

00:25:05.410 --> 00:25:09.940
in the wheelchair, and I
carrying the baby in the pram.

00:25:09.940 --> 00:25:13.030
And we met the security
police and he waved to them,

00:25:13.030 --> 00:25:14.440
said hello.

00:25:14.440 --> 00:25:16.690
And then they also
greeted him back.

00:25:16.690 --> 00:25:19.885
They even stopped at times
and asked, how do you doing?

00:25:19.885 --> 00:25:21.970
He just said fine.

00:25:21.970 --> 00:25:24.580
Nothing else-- they
just talk as friends.

00:25:24.580 --> 00:25:30.280
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:25:30.280 --> 00:25:34.120
- When I'm going to visit
Siphiwo's place, their mom,

00:25:34.120 --> 00:25:36.970
Joyce Mtukulu would
say to me, [INAUDIBLE],,

00:25:36.970 --> 00:25:39.190
I don't want to see this
child in front of me.

00:25:39.190 --> 00:25:43.510
Because seemingly, he is to
say here is Siphiwo the way

00:25:43.510 --> 00:25:44.830
he looks like his father.

00:26:09.902 --> 00:26:14.060
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:27:38.012 --> 00:27:40.970
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:27:49.860 --> 00:27:52.945
- Less than two weeks after
suing the Minister of Police,

00:27:52.945 --> 00:27:54.570
and only shortly
before his claim would

00:27:54.570 --> 00:27:58.500
be heard by the courts, Siphiwo,
together with his friend, Topsy

00:27:58.500 --> 00:28:01.500
Mdaka, disappeared.

00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:04.020
- After some time,
we got a report

00:28:04.020 --> 00:28:09.380
that Topsy's car was found next
to Lesotho borders, abandoned

00:28:09.380 --> 00:28:10.450
there.

00:28:10.450 --> 00:28:13.290
And initially,
there was a thought

00:28:13.290 --> 00:28:15.270
that maybe they have
left the country.

00:28:15.270 --> 00:28:17.070
- So we had thought
the obvious thing

00:28:17.070 --> 00:28:19.360
to do is to actually
go to Lesotho

00:28:19.360 --> 00:28:21.390
and see whether he was there.

00:28:21.390 --> 00:28:28.310
So we arranged for Joyce
to meet us in Lesotho.

00:28:28.310 --> 00:28:31.750
- The comrades made contact
with the ANC in Lesotho.

00:28:31.750 --> 00:28:33.250
And they got a
feedback from the ANC

00:28:33.250 --> 00:28:35.400
in Lesotho that no, those
comrades are not there.

00:28:35.400 --> 00:28:37.120
They have never been there.

00:28:37.120 --> 00:28:40.390
- It was very
difficult for Joyce

00:28:40.390 --> 00:28:44.110
to be confronted with the
huge question then of, well,

00:28:44.110 --> 00:28:47.472
if he isn't there,
then where is he?

00:28:47.472 --> 00:28:51.190
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:28:51.190 --> 00:28:53.500
- At the end of
1985, Di's husband

00:28:53.500 --> 00:28:57.460
Brian Bishop and Molly Blackburn
were killed in a mysterious car

00:28:57.460 --> 00:29:00.980
crash that many speculated
was the work of the security

00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:01.480
police.

00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:08.500
Di and Judy Chalmers, Molly's
sister, miraculously survived.

00:29:14.278 --> 00:29:16.768
[KNOCKING ON DOOR]

00:29:18.262 --> 00:29:19.756
- [INAUDIBLE]

00:29:19.756 --> 00:29:20.752
- Di!

00:29:20.752 --> 00:29:24.238
[INAUDIBLE]

00:29:24.238 --> 00:29:25.732
Hello there.

00:29:25.732 --> 00:29:26.728
Hello there.

00:29:26.728 --> 00:29:28.222
Hello there.

00:29:28.222 --> 00:29:29.716
Hello [INAUDIBLE].

00:29:36.527 --> 00:29:37.900
- I'm very happy to be here.

00:29:46.410 --> 00:29:48.835
- [INAUDIBLE] Di!

00:29:48.835 --> 00:29:49.805
[INAUDIBLE]

00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:57.170
As if he's going to talk.

00:29:57.170 --> 00:29:57.670
- Yeah.

00:30:04.660 --> 00:30:06.344
- Where is Molly?

00:30:06.344 --> 00:30:08.040
Where is Brian?

00:30:08.040 --> 00:30:10.654
What happened to
Brian and Molly?

00:30:10.654 --> 00:30:13.094
[CRYING]

00:30:14.558 --> 00:30:19.700
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:30:19.700 --> 00:30:24.131
- God separated our
loved ones from us!

00:30:24.131 --> 00:30:26.536
[WAILING]

00:30:30.390 --> 00:30:33.250
- I feel joy and
exultation when I

00:30:33.250 --> 00:30:37.510
know there will be no
more cells, no more

00:30:37.510 --> 00:30:43.780
detentions for my son, no
rat poison in his foods.

00:30:43.780 --> 00:30:46.540
- My mother, speaking
at a protest meeting

00:30:46.540 --> 00:30:51.280
about the horrors of detention,
3rd of August 1982, the day

00:30:51.280 --> 00:30:53.320
after my deportation.

00:30:53.320 --> 00:30:57.360
- I am deeply ashamed
of my [INAUDIBLE]..

00:30:57.360 --> 00:30:59.900
For there, but for
the grace of God,

00:30:59.900 --> 00:31:05.267
go I. I am so much luckier
than so many other mothers

00:31:05.267 --> 00:31:09.090
in this country.

00:31:09.090 --> 00:31:12.800
- He now gets dragged off
at night into the wilds.

00:31:12.800 --> 00:31:16.100
And you said there was no alarm.

00:31:16.100 --> 00:31:17.430
- Is this [INAUDIBLE]?

00:31:17.430 --> 00:31:19.210
- That's correct, your honor.

00:31:19.210 --> 00:31:23.910
[RATTLING]

00:31:23.910 --> 00:31:30.010
- We are going nearer to this
place now, this old farm, Post

00:31:30.010 --> 00:31:31.560
Chalmers.

00:31:31.560 --> 00:31:35.420
I think the team was
very happy by now

00:31:35.420 --> 00:31:38.810
because they were
going to do their job.

00:31:38.810 --> 00:31:41.785
And the devil was pushing
them to do the job perfect.

00:31:54.170 --> 00:31:57.180
- Siphiwo and Topsy were
driven nearly 300 kilometers

00:31:57.180 --> 00:32:00.240
to Post Chalmers, where
the Pebco 3 were also

00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.010
brutally murdered.

00:32:02.010 --> 00:32:06.250
[RATTLING]

00:32:06.250 --> 00:32:08.590
Joe Mamasela, the
former fighter who

00:32:08.590 --> 00:32:11.290
has turned and worked for
an apartheid death squad,

00:32:11.290 --> 00:32:13.490
was there.

00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:16.850
- Was Mr. Nieuwoudt quite
active with his iron pipe?

00:32:16.850 --> 00:32:19.220
- Extremely.

00:32:19.220 --> 00:32:21.500
- Did Nieuwoudt
continuously beat

00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:23.690
these people, the
two that we are now

00:32:23.690 --> 00:32:26.750
dealing with on the first day?

00:32:26.750 --> 00:32:29.060
- I wouldn't say continuously.

00:32:29.060 --> 00:32:32.850
He would beat them, beat
them, and [INAUDIBLE]

00:32:32.850 --> 00:32:35.600
and then he would go out.

00:32:35.600 --> 00:32:38.510
- And what happened
when you got there?

00:32:38.510 --> 00:32:40.130
You just let them
go to bed, did you?

00:32:43.850 --> 00:32:44.780
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:32:44.780 --> 00:32:47.040
No, your honor.

00:32:47.040 --> 00:32:51.780
- I am clear in my own mind
that they tortured those people.

00:32:51.780 --> 00:32:56.850
And maybe that torture
was so heinous,

00:32:56.850 --> 00:33:00.240
so you know
[INAUDIBLE] that even

00:33:00.240 --> 00:33:07.710
they are not prepared
to stand up in public

00:33:07.710 --> 00:33:09.140
and be counted on that.

00:33:19.577 --> 00:33:23.570
- [INAUDIBLE] But this is
possibly the place where they

00:33:23.570 --> 00:33:24.830
were kept.

00:33:24.830 --> 00:33:26.460
That I don't doubt.

00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:27.260
- [INAUDIBLE]

00:33:27.260 --> 00:33:32.520
- This is supposed to be where
they were kept, two of them.

00:33:32.520 --> 00:33:39.610
[NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:33:39.610 --> 00:33:44.516
- You can see the moon
and the stars up there.

00:33:44.516 --> 00:33:45.016
Yes.

00:33:47.615 --> 00:33:49.240
- Gideon Nieuwoudt
deliberately avoided

00:33:49.240 --> 00:33:53.020
showing us the holding cells at
the perimeter of Post Chalmers.

00:33:53.020 --> 00:33:56.050
And serious questions
remain about the 18 hours

00:33:56.050 --> 00:33:59.110
that elapsed before Siphiwo
and Topsy were burned.

00:34:02.540 --> 00:34:06.890
- This is also the place, where
I'm standing now, where Mr.

00:34:06.890 --> 00:34:13.280
[INAUDIBLE],, Mr. Mtimkulu
and Mr. Mdaka was abducted.

00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:21.139
And basically they were shot
and placed on the pile of wood

00:34:21.139 --> 00:34:24.434
and diesel were thrown on them.

00:34:24.434 --> 00:34:26.879
[RUSTLING]

00:34:35.681 --> 00:34:37.637
- What happened
when you got there?

00:34:40.571 --> 00:34:42.070
[METAL CLANGING]

00:34:42.070 --> 00:34:44.239
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:46.310
- They offered no
resistance whatsoever,

00:34:46.310 --> 00:34:49.400
that I can promise you.

00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:51.717
They were actually
quite relaxed.

00:34:51.717 --> 00:34:53.509
I don't know what went
through their minds.

00:34:56.120 --> 00:34:57.710
I cannot know that.

00:34:57.710 --> 00:35:00.590
- What did they do while you
went outside and collected

00:35:00.590 --> 00:35:04.230
the firewood you were
going to use to burn them.

00:35:04.230 --> 00:35:06.320
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:12.000
- General van Rensburg
and I collected firewood.

00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:17.870
And then Colonel du Plessis
would look after them.

00:35:17.870 --> 00:35:22.320
- And as they were
burning them, by the way,

00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.570
you said [INAUDIBLE], was it?

00:35:24.570 --> 00:35:26.440
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:35:26.440 --> 00:35:29.500
- I think approximately
six hours is what I said.

00:35:29.500 --> 00:35:31.460
- [WAILING]

00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:33.520
- I think that's what I said.

00:35:33.520 --> 00:35:35.790
It was all too much
for Sikhumbuzo,

00:35:35.790 --> 00:35:38.650
whose name in English
means remembrance.

00:35:38.650 --> 00:35:42.340
What a legacy to carry, as he
has no memory of his father.

00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:49.650
- That really, really
changed my life.

00:35:49.650 --> 00:35:52.770
Because I am not the
Sikhumbuzo that people

00:35:52.770 --> 00:35:54.390
used to know before.

00:35:54.390 --> 00:36:00.251
After that Commission, that's
my life it just was miserable.

00:36:03.240 --> 00:36:06.800
I'm not the same as before.

00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.260
- All these years I was angry.

00:36:09.260 --> 00:36:12.850
I had an anger.

00:36:12.850 --> 00:36:15.150
I don't know what this place is.

00:36:15.150 --> 00:36:17.490
I don't know how it looks like.

00:36:17.490 --> 00:36:20.280
I don't know where
he could be buried.

00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:22.220
Possibly, he was buried--

00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:24.930
possibly, they dug
deep holes here,

00:36:24.930 --> 00:36:27.330
the whole night they
were here fishing.

00:36:27.330 --> 00:36:32.820
They could have also buried
them here among these trees.

00:36:32.820 --> 00:36:36.450
Nobody could believe what they
say that they took their bones

00:36:36.450 --> 00:36:38.560
to the fishery [INAUDIBLE].

00:36:38.560 --> 00:36:40.105
Siphiwo died in this place.

00:36:43.360 --> 00:36:45.334
May God bless his soul.

00:36:45.334 --> 00:36:47.230
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:49.930
- After the killing of
Siphiwo, in the next decade,

00:36:49.930 --> 00:36:52.030
the family were
themselves targeted

00:36:52.030 --> 00:36:54.340
by the security police.

00:36:54.340 --> 00:36:57.520
- They went straight
into the bedroom,

00:36:57.520 --> 00:37:00.850
looking underneath the
beds and the wardrobes,

00:37:00.850 --> 00:37:02.500
everywhere in the house.

00:37:02.500 --> 00:37:03.900
He was a terrorist.

00:37:03.900 --> 00:37:07.240
[INAUDIBLE] but he came back.

00:37:07.240 --> 00:37:08.420
[INAUDIBLE] in a wheelchair.

00:37:08.420 --> 00:37:11.520
He can't walk properly.

00:37:11.520 --> 00:37:13.780
All these years,
they had a cover

00:37:13.780 --> 00:37:17.070
that Siphiwo was still alive.

00:37:17.070 --> 00:37:20.070
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:38:02.890 --> 00:38:04.990
- The [INAUDIBLE] we
sat around the table.

00:38:04.990 --> 00:38:06.155
It was Nieuwoudt.

00:38:06.155 --> 00:38:08.920
It was [INAUDIBLE]
and du Plessis--

00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:10.270
the three musketeers.

00:38:10.270 --> 00:38:10.930
So we met them.

00:38:10.930 --> 00:38:13.960
And said, no, we've been
mandated by the branch

00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.360
to come and request
that you retain

00:38:16.360 --> 00:38:18.240
all the material from them.

00:38:18.240 --> 00:38:22.210
Then in the midst
of that discussion

00:38:22.210 --> 00:38:23.970
then came the issue of Siphiwo.

00:38:23.970 --> 00:38:26.110
It was Nieuwoudt
started saying, what

00:38:26.110 --> 00:38:28.620
happened to your friend Siphiwo?

00:38:28.620 --> 00:38:31.390
So I said, I said,
you killed him.

00:38:31.390 --> 00:38:32.100
[LAUGHTER]

00:38:32.100 --> 00:38:32.600
Yeah.

00:38:35.110 --> 00:38:36.640
I said so to Nieuwoudt.

00:38:36.640 --> 00:38:38.200
You killed him, Nieuwoudt.

00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:39.890
Wasn't he angry?

00:38:39.890 --> 00:38:40.390
- Yeah.

00:38:40.390 --> 00:38:42.160
- Wasn't he angry?

00:38:42.160 --> 00:38:43.030
- He was red.

00:38:43.030 --> 00:38:45.730
- He was red, red, red--

00:38:45.730 --> 00:38:47.620
a month after
Siphiwo disappeared.

00:38:47.620 --> 00:38:48.635
- Yeah.

00:38:48.635 --> 00:38:52.230
- You know I met [INAUDIBLE]
down [INAUDIBLE] diplomats shop

00:38:52.230 --> 00:38:53.137
[INAUDIBLE].

00:38:53.137 --> 00:38:53.970
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:38:53.970 --> 00:38:54.740
[LAUGHTER]

00:38:54.740 --> 00:38:55.490
- I met Nieuwoudt.

00:38:55.490 --> 00:38:56.323
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:38:56.323 --> 00:39:01.080
[LAUGHTER]

00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:03.317
- They were shocked.

00:39:03.317 --> 00:39:04.150
Where's your father?

00:39:04.150 --> 00:39:04.983
Where's your mother?

00:39:04.983 --> 00:39:07.540
- Oh.

00:39:07.540 --> 00:39:10.082
- Why [INAUDIBLE]?

00:39:10.082 --> 00:39:12.572
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:39:24.050 --> 00:39:28.040
- [INAUDIBLE] come here in
my house, pretend as priests,

00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:28.810
[INAUDIBLE].

00:39:31.460 --> 00:39:42.620
Your [INAUDIBLE] and a
black coat, having a Bible,

00:39:42.620 --> 00:39:44.220
pretending there's a priest--

00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:53.120
with a gun, yes, with a gun,
and forgetting that, with a gun.

00:39:53.120 --> 00:39:56.430
- I just want to set the
record straight here.

00:39:56.430 --> 00:40:01.370
I had a rash from shaving.

00:40:01.370 --> 00:40:06.770
And I had a bandage
around it, covered it.

00:40:06.770 --> 00:40:13.550
And I had a black polo neck
shirt on with a white jacket.

00:40:13.550 --> 00:40:15.280
So that, it's true.

00:40:15.280 --> 00:40:17.831
It could give that
interpretation.

00:40:21.890 --> 00:40:24.710
- From my own experience, I
know how personal things get

00:40:24.710 --> 00:40:28.000
between torturer and victim.

00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:29.530
They see in each
other everything

00:40:29.530 --> 00:40:31.480
they hold to be evil.

00:40:31.480 --> 00:40:34.510
Exculpate yourself, they command
of the apartheid torturer.

00:40:37.660 --> 00:40:41.860
now before the TLC himself, he
tries to convince the public

00:40:41.860 --> 00:40:43.960
that he is truly coming clean.

00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:46.090
Yet with the help of
state funds, which

00:40:46.090 --> 00:40:48.910
pay for the lawyers,
and a strategy designed

00:40:48.910 --> 00:40:51.790
to admit as little as
possible, the perpetrators

00:40:51.790 --> 00:40:55.060
for the most part show
little sign of remorse.

00:40:55.060 --> 00:40:57.730
But then, remorse is not
required to gain amnesty.

00:41:01.100 --> 00:41:03.940
- The evidence you will
give before this Commission

00:41:03.940 --> 00:41:08.350
today will be the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing

00:41:08.350 --> 00:41:11.440
but the truth, so help you, God.

00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:12.320
Thank you very much.

00:41:12.320 --> 00:41:13.030
Please be seated.

00:41:16.700 --> 00:41:19.595
- Were you with Joyce when
she went to give evidence

00:41:19.595 --> 00:41:21.800
to the TLC and they
[INAUDIBLE] turning away?

00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:22.300
- Yes.

00:41:22.300 --> 00:41:22.830
I was there.

00:41:22.830 --> 00:41:24.701
- It was incredibly painful.

00:41:24.701 --> 00:41:25.201
- It was.

00:41:30.390 --> 00:41:32.060
- So it's very special for you.

00:41:32.060 --> 00:41:33.820
It's very special for us.

00:41:33.820 --> 00:41:37.770
It's very special for all
the people of New Brighton,

00:41:37.770 --> 00:41:40.280
from Port Elizabeth,
and so many others who

00:41:40.280 --> 00:41:43.970
will be listening on the
radio and watching and reading

00:41:43.970 --> 00:41:50.810
about you and your son and
the suffering and the pain

00:41:50.810 --> 00:41:51.790
that you've endured.

00:41:59.640 --> 00:42:03.320
- Why is Nieuwoudt now--

00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:08.450
why does he want to
come and apologize?

00:42:08.450 --> 00:42:11.870
What was Nieuwoudt waiting
for all these years,

00:42:11.870 --> 00:42:14.400
even before the TLC?

00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:18.020
- I've reconciled with Christ.

00:42:18.020 --> 00:42:21.200
I do believe in the objectives
of the Truth Commission,

00:42:21.200 --> 00:42:23.930
because even God commands that.

00:42:23.930 --> 00:42:28.460
If I've committed a sin, if
I've done my brother wrong,

00:42:28.460 --> 00:42:32.990
I must ask God forgiveness
for the sin and then

00:42:32.990 --> 00:42:38.900
go to my brother and
[INAUDIBLE] I've done you wrong.

00:42:38.900 --> 00:42:42.200
- Because there is time
that your body is full.

00:42:42.200 --> 00:42:45.110
And if your body is full
now, it just break like that.

00:42:45.110 --> 00:42:46.440
You know?

00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:48.820
Why is Nieuwoudt--
this Nieuwoudt?

00:42:52.620 --> 00:42:53.955
He is now like a preacher.

00:42:56.750 --> 00:43:00.020
You know, I can't
describe how Nieuwoudt is.

00:43:00.020 --> 00:43:02.200
At times, I really--

00:43:02.200 --> 00:43:05.110
I get emotional.

00:43:05.110 --> 00:43:08.170
- Motivated, I believe, to
improve his chances for amnesty

00:43:08.170 --> 00:43:10.900
by the TLC, Gideon
Nieuwoudt approached

00:43:10.900 --> 00:43:13.510
me to set up a
meeting with Joyce

00:43:13.510 --> 00:43:17.720
so that he could ask the family
directly for forgiveness.

00:43:17.720 --> 00:43:23.150
- I'm prepared to
meet the family

00:43:23.150 --> 00:43:28.710
and to speak to them under
the auspices of the Truth

00:43:28.710 --> 00:43:32.515
and Reconciliation Committee.

00:43:32.515 --> 00:43:34.140
- I knew that Nieuwoudt
would be hoping

00:43:34.140 --> 00:43:36.330
that, as a good
Christian, Joyce would

00:43:36.330 --> 00:43:38.320
feel compelled to forgive him.

00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:40.410
And I thought, how
convenient that he feels

00:43:40.410 --> 00:43:41.640
Christ has forgiven him.

00:43:44.360 --> 00:43:47.970
And looking at him, I
see no sign of remorse.

00:43:47.970 --> 00:43:51.420
What strikes me most
is how remote he seems.

00:43:51.420 --> 00:43:54.750
But perhaps, this is merely
the outward sign of someone,

00:43:54.750 --> 00:43:58.230
suddenly powerless, now
trying to hold things together

00:43:58.230 --> 00:43:59.748
while living a nightmare.

00:44:06.918 --> 00:44:09.310
[CAR HORN SOUNDS]

00:44:09.310 --> 00:44:15.760
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH],, thank
you for the opportunity that I

00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:19.120
could meet you people
today, the family.

00:44:19.120 --> 00:44:26.150
Why I am here is
to seek forgiveness

00:44:26.150 --> 00:44:30.950
from the family for
what hardship that I've

00:44:30.950 --> 00:44:38.234
caused in the past as a result
of the apartheid regime.

00:44:38.234 --> 00:44:38.734
- Mhm.

00:44:43.104 --> 00:44:43.604
Eh.

00:44:53.515 --> 00:45:00.080
I think you know
very well who I am.

00:45:00.080 --> 00:45:06.680
We are also pleased that you
have come to sit here today,

00:45:06.680 --> 00:45:09.920
facing each other
an eye to an eye.

00:45:09.920 --> 00:45:14.210
- With truth and sincerity,
I come here today.

00:45:14.210 --> 00:45:18.140
This is where reconciliation
started, where

00:45:18.140 --> 00:45:20.620
the Lord is being honored.

00:45:20.620 --> 00:45:24.730
And His name be glorified.

00:45:24.730 --> 00:45:27.525
And we seek wisdom and
knowledge from him.

00:45:27.525 --> 00:45:28.800
- [INAUDIBLE]

00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:33.790
- You are adamant
that it was Nieuwoudt?

00:45:33.790 --> 00:45:34.290
- Aye.

00:45:34.290 --> 00:45:35.340
I know this man.

00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:37.500
We talked a lot with him.

00:45:37.500 --> 00:45:40.500
He is the man who quoted
the Bible with his head--

00:45:40.500 --> 00:45:41.790
A up to Z.

00:45:41.790 --> 00:45:46.080
- According to your report
at the Truth Commission,

00:45:46.080 --> 00:45:50.710
you claim that [INAUDIBLE] got
sick whilst he was here at his

00:45:50.710 --> 00:45:51.577
home.

00:45:51.577 --> 00:45:52.410
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:45:52.410 --> 00:45:54.650
- I do-- I don't
know what sickness--

00:45:54.650 --> 00:45:58.240
- When we are asking about
the question of poison food.

00:45:58.240 --> 00:46:01.730
- Oh, the question of
poisoning [INAUDIBLE]..

00:46:01.730 --> 00:46:03.970
- [INAUDIBLE] to be
[INAUDIBLE] because the poison.

00:46:07.110 --> 00:46:09.930
And what makes people's
head to get out of his head,

00:46:09.930 --> 00:46:11.610
because the poison.

00:46:11.610 --> 00:46:15.280
- You see, but what the
poison can't concern--

00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.980
that I can state with
clear conscience,

00:46:17.980 --> 00:46:19.559
I know nothing about it.

00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:21.904
[METAL CLANGING]

00:46:26.130 --> 00:46:29.370
I wasn't even the last
person to release him.

00:46:32.150 --> 00:46:33.170
So--

00:46:33.170 --> 00:46:38.070
- You even wanted to
do poison Mandela.

00:46:38.070 --> 00:46:39.020
- Yeah, you see, but--

00:46:39.020 --> 00:46:42.830
- You know they end that
thallium poisoning now,

00:46:42.830 --> 00:46:47.780
which means nobody outside
could have that thallium

00:46:47.780 --> 00:46:52.430
poison that you used
to poison Siphiwo.

00:46:52.430 --> 00:46:55.670
There was nobody was
supposed to have it.

00:46:55.670 --> 00:46:58.960
It's only the system who had it.

00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:00.880
- I can only speculate now.

00:47:00.880 --> 00:47:03.280
It's even what about the
military intelligence?

00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.170
What about the ANC?

00:47:05.170 --> 00:47:07.430
What about the
National Intelligence,

00:47:07.430 --> 00:47:11.150
or the intelligence
organization?

00:47:11.150 --> 00:47:15.170
It's easy for them
to send somebody

00:47:15.170 --> 00:47:18.050
to poison Mr. Mtimkulu.

00:47:18.050 --> 00:47:19.370
That's easy.

00:47:19.370 --> 00:47:22.910
But I was unaware of that fact.

00:47:22.910 --> 00:47:26.720
Nothing could actually
transpire here

00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:31.810
without me knowing about a
detainee, because my office was

00:47:31.810 --> 00:47:34.010
next door.

00:47:34.010 --> 00:47:38.000
- The system wanted
Siphiwo to die in our hands

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:41.340
and say you've got
nothing to do with it.

00:47:41.340 --> 00:47:42.860
We've put all this
thing onto you,

00:47:42.860 --> 00:47:45.718
because you are the
very, very person--

00:47:45.718 --> 00:47:51.260
you were monitoring Siphiwo.

00:47:51.260 --> 00:47:51.760
- Yeah.

00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:53.445
No, I accept that, yeah.

00:47:53.445 --> 00:47:54.070
- Till the end.

00:47:54.070 --> 00:47:55.730
- Yeah, I accept that.

00:47:55.730 --> 00:48:00.790
But again, I wasn't in a
position to have released him.

00:48:00.790 --> 00:48:03.990
- Yes, Granny did ask him.

00:48:03.990 --> 00:48:08.163
But I wanted also to ask
him, just like you, sit her

00:48:08.163 --> 00:48:10.010
and we talk.

00:48:10.010 --> 00:48:11.830
See, but I was not
given a chance.

00:48:15.660 --> 00:48:19.130
- I think you were the
one giving approval

00:48:19.130 --> 00:48:20.330
to those gentlemen.

00:48:20.330 --> 00:48:22.670
Because they gave you a
chance to interrogate people.

00:48:26.780 --> 00:48:27.470
- But I--

00:48:27.470 --> 00:48:29.817
- Also what-- was
your motivation.

00:48:29.817 --> 00:48:30.650
Because it was what?

00:48:30.650 --> 00:48:32.870
It was you who was
giving the report.

00:48:32.870 --> 00:48:34.160
- My job was to--

00:48:34.160 --> 00:48:35.710
to get information.

00:48:35.710 --> 00:48:39.790
And which I did for my
country, and which I'm saying,

00:48:39.790 --> 00:48:40.400
it's wrong.

00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:41.800
It's wrong what we've did.

00:48:45.270 --> 00:48:48.070
I've interrogated
a lot of people.

00:48:48.070 --> 00:48:50.190
That is all.

00:48:50.190 --> 00:48:56.900
And I know, [INAUDIBLE] what
physical or psychological

00:48:56.900 --> 00:48:58.190
method to use.

00:48:58.190 --> 00:49:03.440
But I never used no
physical method on Siphiwo.

00:49:03.440 --> 00:49:06.048
That I can tell you with
the truth here tonight.

00:49:06.048 --> 00:49:06.590
[MEN YELLING]

00:49:06.590 --> 00:49:09.180
- Nieuwoudt, with the help of
[INAUDIBLE] and [INAUDIBLE],,

00:49:09.180 --> 00:49:11.995
would take me to the box
filled with cold water.

00:49:11.995 --> 00:49:13.240
- Gentlemen!

00:49:13.240 --> 00:49:17.190
They would keep my head under
water, and hold it there.

00:49:17.190 --> 00:49:19.220
They would repeat this
a number of times,

00:49:19.220 --> 00:49:21.080
until I had swallowed
enough water

00:49:21.080 --> 00:49:22.438
to make my stomach protrude.

00:49:27.320 --> 00:49:32.240
- And a matter of fact, I
never eliminated Siphiwo.

00:49:32.240 --> 00:49:35.733
Yeah, but here I'm here, and
asking you people forgiveness.

00:49:39.190 --> 00:49:40.750
- You never eliminated him?

00:49:40.750 --> 00:49:41.958
- No, I didn't eliminate him.

00:49:41.958 --> 00:49:43.080
- Who eliminated him?

00:49:43.080 --> 00:49:46.650
- General van Rensburg did.

00:49:46.650 --> 00:49:48.780
- Were you not together
in the mission?

00:49:48.780 --> 00:49:49.660
- Yes.

00:49:49.660 --> 00:49:50.500
But I was--

00:49:50.500 --> 00:49:55.510
- [INAUDIBLE] you and Rensburg
and others eliminated Siphiwo.

00:49:55.510 --> 00:49:56.650
- That is true.

00:49:56.650 --> 00:50:00.100
I didn't actually
eliminate, although I was--

00:50:00.100 --> 00:50:02.050
I was accomplices.

00:50:02.050 --> 00:50:03.080
That is so.

00:50:03.080 --> 00:50:04.150
I was a accomplice.

00:50:04.150 --> 00:50:07.070
- Mm.

00:50:07.070 --> 00:50:09.910
- Who shot them?

00:50:09.910 --> 00:50:13.150
- I shot, uh, Topsy.

00:50:13.150 --> 00:50:15.500
- Who shot them?

00:50:15.500 --> 00:50:17.140
I don't know who shot who.

00:50:17.140 --> 00:50:19.340
Who shot them?

00:50:19.340 --> 00:50:20.930
Or you were you doing tense?

00:50:20.930 --> 00:50:22.680
That's like when
I'm shooting birds--

00:50:22.680 --> 00:50:25.310
one shoots here
and one shooting?

00:50:25.310 --> 00:50:26.212
Were you doing that?

00:50:26.212 --> 00:50:26.712
- Yeah.

00:50:26.712 --> 00:50:27.684
I did.

00:50:27.684 --> 00:50:30.240
- Mm.

00:50:30.240 --> 00:50:35.300
- They didn't even left the
bone, they throw it all away.

00:50:35.300 --> 00:50:36.310
[INAUDIBLE]

00:50:39.940 --> 00:50:42.130
- Were you a
Christian before you--

00:50:42.130 --> 00:50:45.100
when did you start
being a Christian?

00:50:45.100 --> 00:50:46.640
- That was in '72.

00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:48.220
I gave my heart to it.

00:50:48.220 --> 00:50:50.155
- You also failed
as a Christian.

00:50:53.530 --> 00:50:57.410
You are coming now at sunset.

00:50:57.410 --> 00:50:58.430
You are a Christian.

00:50:58.430 --> 00:51:00.160
I was a Christian.

00:51:00.160 --> 00:51:03.400
But the doings were
not for Christians.

00:51:03.400 --> 00:51:10.260
What I'm trying to say
is now you came late.

00:51:10.260 --> 00:51:13.050
It is not late for court,
underline that one.

00:51:13.050 --> 00:51:13.750
- That's right.

00:51:13.750 --> 00:51:16.582
- But to me, you came late.

00:51:16.582 --> 00:51:17.910
- That so?

00:51:17.910 --> 00:51:22.500
- I was suffering,
crying all over,

00:51:22.500 --> 00:51:28.410
shouting all over the townships,
writing letters, doing this,

00:51:28.410 --> 00:51:31.950
doing that, having no money.

00:51:31.950 --> 00:51:33.820
We are sick in this house.

00:51:33.820 --> 00:51:37.200
My husband is suffering
from a heart attack.

00:51:37.200 --> 00:51:40.120
There is nobody
working in this house.

00:51:40.120 --> 00:51:43.170
Siphiwo's kids are sufferers.

00:51:43.170 --> 00:51:45.600
We are the sufferers.

00:51:45.600 --> 00:51:49.980
I had-- oh, I have got--
all we have got-- no price

00:51:49.980 --> 00:51:52.200
to be paid for Siphiwo's soul.

00:51:52.200 --> 00:51:58.355
Nobody ever can
pay my son's soul.

00:51:58.355 --> 00:51:59.450
- Mhm.

00:51:59.450 --> 00:52:01.910
- I've got no price for him.

00:52:01.910 --> 00:52:06.000
I don't care for
anybody's money.

00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:12.930
My son's body or soul will
never come back to this world.

00:52:12.930 --> 00:52:13.700
OK.

00:52:13.700 --> 00:52:19.040
Then now, I think I have come
out what ever I had in me.

00:52:19.040 --> 00:52:22.600
And you've possible answered the
questions I've been asking you.

00:52:22.600 --> 00:52:25.010
- That's true.

00:52:25.010 --> 00:52:26.060
I've done my duty.

00:52:26.060 --> 00:52:29.510
And I know it's difficult
for you as a family.

00:52:29.510 --> 00:52:30.630
I know it.

00:52:30.630 --> 00:52:34.640
You know, it's difficult for me
to place myself in your shoes.

00:52:34.640 --> 00:52:35.960
I know it.

00:52:35.960 --> 00:52:37.100
You know?

00:52:37.100 --> 00:52:40.380
So it's not easy.

00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:42.080
It's not easy, I know.

00:52:42.080 --> 00:52:44.910
But I thank you for
the opportunity.

00:52:44.910 --> 00:52:47.120
Thank you just for
the opportunity that I

00:52:47.120 --> 00:52:48.830
could meet with [INAUDIBLE].

00:52:48.830 --> 00:52:50.960
That's all I want to ask.

00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:52.340
Thank you for that.

00:52:52.340 --> 00:52:53.080
I appreciate it.

00:52:55.970 --> 00:52:57.470
[INAUDIBLE]

00:52:57.470 --> 00:53:05.918
- Mr. Nieuwoudt, my wife is
saying to you you are too late.

00:53:05.918 --> 00:53:08.580
And me, I say so.

00:53:08.580 --> 00:53:09.630
You are too late--

00:53:09.630 --> 00:53:12.690
15 years.

00:53:12.690 --> 00:53:14.080
No sorry about you.

00:53:14.080 --> 00:53:20.880
This family-- what is
[INAUDIBLE] the son.

00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:22.050
Very sorry.

00:53:22.050 --> 00:53:23.590
Thank you to come.

00:53:23.590 --> 00:53:24.210
- Thank you.

00:53:24.210 --> 00:53:25.725
Thank you for the opportunity.

00:53:25.725 --> 00:53:27.000
Thank you to come.

00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:28.860
But it's no sorry here.

00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:33.100
The family is no sorry
about you and your command,

00:53:33.100 --> 00:53:33.900
and your lawyers.

00:53:39.110 --> 00:53:40.550
- Thank you.

00:53:40.550 --> 00:53:41.660
- I think we might--

00:53:41.660 --> 00:53:43.227
we-- we may be--

00:53:43.227 --> 00:53:45.175
[GLASS CRASHING]

00:53:45.175 --> 00:53:47.970
[INTERPOSING VOICES]

00:53:47.970 --> 00:53:48.470
- Calm down!

00:53:48.470 --> 00:53:50.086
[INAUDIBLE]

00:53:50.086 --> 00:53:52.038
[ENGINE STARTING]

00:53:53.990 --> 00:53:57.406
- [INAUDIBLE]

00:54:02.300 --> 00:54:04.550
- Events took an
unexpected turn when

00:54:04.550 --> 00:54:07.910
Sikhumbuzo smashed a vase
over Nieuwoudt's head,

00:54:07.910 --> 00:54:08.900
fracturing his skull.

00:54:13.710 --> 00:54:16.380
- He keep on lying
to us, lying to us.

00:54:16.380 --> 00:54:20.620
That's why I do something
to show that I'm angry.

00:54:20.620 --> 00:54:23.700
And I don't think that
I will forgive him.

00:54:23.700 --> 00:54:29.254
He's sitting there by his house,
enjoying himself with his kids.

00:54:29.254 --> 00:54:30.970
You see?

00:54:30.970 --> 00:54:33.550
What about us here?

00:54:33.550 --> 00:54:36.520
- I was happy about what
Sikhumbuzo did to him.

00:54:36.520 --> 00:54:38.280
Because I think he deserve it--

00:54:38.280 --> 00:54:41.460
was as a pig.

00:54:41.460 --> 00:54:43.640
- [INAUDIBLE]

00:54:43.640 --> 00:54:44.610
- OK, sure.

00:54:44.610 --> 00:54:46.350
- But it was not
my plan to hit him.

00:54:46.350 --> 00:54:47.610
- You hadn't planned it?

00:54:47.610 --> 00:54:49.687
- I didn't plan it.

00:54:49.687 --> 00:54:50.395
It just happened.

00:54:55.790 --> 00:54:57.710
- I was plagued
by the possibility

00:54:57.710 --> 00:55:01.583
that Sikhumbuzo's anger could
consume him to such an extent

00:55:01.583 --> 00:55:02.750
that it could ruin his life.

00:55:06.960 --> 00:55:09.460
And this was reinforced when I
heard that his headmaster had

00:55:09.460 --> 00:55:12.910
expelled him when he became
aware from the newspaper

00:55:12.910 --> 00:55:15.262
of the incident with
Gideon Nieuwoudt.

00:55:17.990 --> 00:55:23.900
- Wherever I go, it's just like
I'm famous of that incident.

00:55:23.900 --> 00:55:26.920
They say, oh, that boy's rage.

00:55:26.920 --> 00:55:27.560
See?

00:55:27.560 --> 00:55:29.090
People are saying
things about me.

00:55:29.090 --> 00:55:31.430
Those things are
hurting me inside.

00:55:31.430 --> 00:55:35.420
Because they don't
know how do I live.

00:55:35.420 --> 00:55:41.520
- He received counseling from
Dr. Feldman was here in PE.

00:55:41.520 --> 00:55:45.780
And then he called
myself and Mrs. Mtimkulu

00:55:45.780 --> 00:55:50.520
and said, as a psychologist,
it's very painful.

00:55:50.520 --> 00:55:55.980
Because I think that he cannot
rub off from Sikhumbuzo's mind.

00:55:55.980 --> 00:55:59.310
He do want to give help,
but doesn't know how.

00:55:59.310 --> 00:56:01.645
Because he's very angry inside.

00:56:23.264 --> 00:56:25.252
[ENGINE NOISE]

00:56:27.240 --> 00:56:30.222
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:57:18.190 --> 00:57:20.770
- I'd go to even friends,
[INAUDIBLE] friends

00:57:20.770 --> 00:57:22.350
of my father.

00:57:22.350 --> 00:57:26.000
I think they would do
something, but they--

00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:28.180
they just promise,
promise, promise.

00:57:28.180 --> 00:57:29.710
But they didn't even come.

00:57:37.830 --> 00:57:39.800
They are not in the
place they are supposed

00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:42.780
to be because [INAUDIBLE]
would have been able

00:57:42.780 --> 00:57:46.806
with his character, he would
have been able to do that.

00:57:46.806 --> 00:57:48.128
Yes, I accept that.

00:57:48.128 --> 00:57:49.170
Their excuses are flimsy.

00:57:51.926 --> 00:57:54.960
And that was a thing that is
more hated for you to say--

00:57:59.230 --> 00:58:00.980
That's not a good excuse!

00:58:00.980 --> 00:58:04.640
- We had a lot of shortcomings
during the struggle.

00:58:04.640 --> 00:58:06.822
Some of the things, we
took them for granted.

00:58:06.822 --> 00:58:08.780
I mean, I didn't say I
need to go and explain--

00:58:08.780 --> 00:58:09.280
- Yes.

00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:12.980
--to Siphiwo's family
that how he disappeared.

00:58:12.980 --> 00:58:16.115
We thought that perhaps somebody
else was going to do that.

00:58:16.115 --> 00:58:17.990
But we had to look
forward to something else,

00:58:17.990 --> 00:58:20.010
because we were being
chased ourselves.

00:58:20.010 --> 00:58:22.580
- We didn't even have time to
sit down with our own families

00:58:22.580 --> 00:58:22.930
and explain--

00:58:22.930 --> 00:58:23.847
- [NON-ENGLISH SPEECH]

00:58:23.847 --> 00:58:25.280
- some of the things.

00:58:25.280 --> 00:58:28.060
- We have failed Sikhumbuzo
Mtimkulu at [INAUDIBLE]

00:58:28.060 --> 00:58:30.815
the minute of their need.

00:58:30.815 --> 00:58:33.797
But one thing that you
can never and nobody

00:58:33.797 --> 00:58:38.556
can accuse us of
[INAUDIBLE] to do.

00:58:38.556 --> 00:58:46.180
[INAUDIBLE] that we did
what he told us to do.

00:58:46.180 --> 00:58:51.620
[INAUDIBLE]

00:58:51.620 --> 00:58:54.580
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

00:59:10.750 --> 00:59:15.840
- There are many families
who are in the same category

00:59:15.840 --> 00:59:18.390
as the Mtimkulu family.

00:59:18.390 --> 00:59:23.610
And therefore, this
could be in [INAUDIBLE]

00:59:23.610 --> 00:59:25.950
family, or [INAUDIBLE].

00:59:25.950 --> 00:59:29.760
This could be Joseph
[INAUDIBLE] family.

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:31.440
Anywhere, it could be.

00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:34.920
And there are
hundreds of comrades

00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:38.486
that were killed by the security
police in the streets there.

00:59:38.486 --> 00:59:42.060
[LAUGHTER]

00:59:42.060 --> 00:59:46.350
- He is doing all these things
of joining the wrong peer

00:59:46.350 --> 00:59:48.690
group.

00:59:48.690 --> 00:59:50.610
There's a father
figure that is missing.

01:01:08.970 --> 01:01:11.785
It must not be
with-- in him now.

01:01:26.280 --> 01:01:28.540
- If only God could
give me strength

01:01:28.540 --> 01:01:33.990
to just try and forgive
them, maybe in the long run--

01:01:33.990 --> 01:01:36.700
I know I wont be
able to forget it.

01:01:36.700 --> 01:01:39.790
But then just try not to
think about it, you know.

01:01:39.790 --> 01:01:41.550
Because I always think
about it, you know?

01:01:41.550 --> 01:01:45.270
When you go to sleep,
you just think what if?

01:01:45.270 --> 01:01:47.250
You know, you have
those what ifs.

01:01:47.250 --> 01:01:48.690
What if my father was around?

01:01:48.690 --> 01:01:53.103
What if Nieuwoudt and them
didn't do this to us, you know?

01:03:30.660 --> 01:03:33.094
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

01:05:11.220 --> 01:05:17.770
- Also want that thing, that
feeling that we are burying

01:05:17.770 --> 01:05:22.268
Siphiwo, yet it was only
part of his [INAUDIBLE]..

01:05:32.900 --> 01:05:34.390
- Although nothing
can compensate

01:05:34.390 --> 01:05:37.120
for all the suffering, or
quell the ripple effect

01:05:37.120 --> 01:05:40.600
of a death that occurred so many
years ago, during the making

01:05:40.600 --> 01:05:43.710
of this film, I have
witnessed acts of kindness,

01:05:43.710 --> 01:05:45.790
of reconciliation.

01:05:45.790 --> 01:05:47.990
Friends of Professor
Francis Ames,

01:05:47.990 --> 01:05:50.380
mindful of how privileged
their lives have been,

01:05:50.380 --> 01:05:53.270
have funded the three
day burial ceremony.

01:05:53.270 --> 01:05:55.010
Even though they
have finally received

01:05:55.010 --> 01:05:58.020
30,000 rand in reparations
from the government,

01:05:58.020 --> 01:06:01.310
the years of grief,
poverty, and ill health

01:06:01.310 --> 01:06:03.200
have taken their toll.

01:06:03.200 --> 01:06:06.380
Joyce is experiencing
severe pains in her joints.

01:06:06.380 --> 01:06:09.080
And Siphiwo has
suffered a stroke which

01:06:09.080 --> 01:06:11.160
has rendered him speechless.

01:06:11.160 --> 01:06:13.670
Sikhumbuzo has gone
back to his studies,

01:06:13.670 --> 01:06:16.550
but continues to walk a
tightrope between bettering

01:06:16.550 --> 01:06:19.360
himself or self-destruction.

01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:21.710
It took a long
time, but I finally

01:06:21.710 --> 01:06:24.710
got hold of a security
police photo album containing

01:06:24.710 --> 01:06:26.800
pictures of Topsy and Siphiwo.

01:06:26.800 --> 01:06:29.840
There also were some
7,000 photographs

01:06:29.840 --> 01:06:32.120
of opponents of
apartheid, all of whom

01:06:32.120 --> 01:06:35.980
were harassed-- some
turned, and others killed.

01:06:35.980 --> 01:06:39.430
All in all, a remarkable record
that had somehow not been

01:06:39.430 --> 01:06:42.130
shredded.

01:06:42.130 --> 01:06:43.870
Gideon Nieuwoudt
was controversially

01:06:43.870 --> 01:06:46.600
granted amnesty by the
TLC for the killing

01:06:46.600 --> 01:06:48.400
of Siphiwo and Topsy.

01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:51.880
He was, however, denied amnesty
for the Motherwell case, which

01:06:51.880 --> 01:06:54.790
involved blowing up
security policemen.

01:06:54.790 --> 01:06:57.760
Nieuwoudt is now challenging
that TLC decision

01:06:57.760 --> 01:07:00.580
on procedural grounds to
avoid a 20 year prison

01:07:00.580 --> 01:07:03.270
sentence imposed by the courts.

01:07:03.270 --> 01:07:06.060
A new TLC hearing has
had to be instituted,

01:07:06.060 --> 01:07:09.430
and for now, Nieuwoudt
is still a free man.

01:07:09.430 --> 01:07:12.360
He is planning to sue the
state for post-traumatic stress

01:07:12.360 --> 01:07:14.780
he claims he suffered
as a security policeman.

01:07:45.210 --> 01:07:50.370
- Between Joyce and Remembrance
lies the memory of Siphiwo.

01:07:50.370 --> 01:07:56.340
And his gift to us all is the
freedom to fulfill our dreams.

01:07:56.340 --> 01:08:05.090
- [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]